To front face DS at 15 months in his car seat?

[monstera16]

My DS, currently 13 months, absolutely hates the car seat and we can't seem to stop the screaming. We have tried everything - toys, videos, some one in the back, mirror, no mirror, happy song, snacks, nap time trips, new car seat.

He will scream and scream and get himself all worked up and will only stop once you have got him out of the car.

I am fully aware of the guidance to rear face as long as possible, but it's got to the stage where we are now distracted driving and potentially risking an accident through not being fully focused on the road.

So my aibu is, am I being unreasonable to try front facing once he hits 15m to see if this helps control the screaming? (He meets the height and weight requirements)

We have the Joie 360 spin if that helps.

I wouldn’t be risking that yet, there are other things to try first. Have you had decent advice re your car seat fit? There are groups on fb that have got independent sellers who are experts and can help adjust the fit of the seat. Have you tried him in the front next to the driver? That would be much much safer than forward facing- at his age he wouldn’t stand a chance in an accident, do you have to drive him much?

I turned my first and third babies the second they were old enough. Honestly I spent the first year of their lives not being able to go and visit family or do nice things because being in the car seat was so traumatic for them. They’d scream and scream and vomit everywhere for hours. I had to sit in the back and ubuckle my seatbelt while husband drove so I could lean over to to breastfeed while we were driving on the odd occasion when we had to be somewhere. It used to take hours and hours with loads of stops to get anywhere.

Life is a balancing act. I’d certainly turn your baby in these circumstances.

FWIW I’ve covered inquests for my local paper for 20 years and have only ever seen one child who was in a proper car seat killed on the roads in all that time. Car seats are incredibly safe whichever way around they are.

Could you try a different car seat? My daughter stopped screaming in the car the moment we upgraded her from the bucket seat.

I wouldn't front face at 15 months, no.

I had one like this, although thankfully she improved when she moved to the 360 from the infant carrier.

This one is for you to judge I'm afraid OP. Personally, I'd try it. The stress of driving with a screaming baby is unreal and not safe either, and the risk of a serious collision is small. But others will say any risk at all of a serious collision is too high. You (and your partner if you have one) need to decide your own attitude to risk on this one.

I shifted all three of mine to forward facing at this point.

Have you tried rear facing in the front passenger seat with the airbag off?

I can't understand how restricting a child in a position that distresses them and letting them scream is better for their wellbeing than the tiny % additional risk of injury in the unlikely event of being in a crash.

I wouldn't hesitate to turn them.

The additional risk is fairly small but I would minimise driving at this age if the child is really hating it. Things will improve in a year and you'll have more freedom.

Before turning them I would try in the front passenger seat with airbag off so they can see you. And try not a spin seat as they tend to be more upright. And try taking the rear headrest off so can maybe see more out the back.

And I would try all the tricks for tavel sickness incase that's what is the cause. But also babies do usually suddenly grow out if screaming in the carseat.

I know people have very strong opinions on extended rear facing but it's also dangerous as you say to be driving with a screaming baby as can be very distracting. So you have to weigh up the risks. You have a few months to see if he does grow out of hating it on his own.

Could you pop him in a friend's car seat and see if he's any better in a different seat? We have a Joie 360 spin and then when DD2 was born, got a Britax Max Safe Pro for my eldest (all in grandparents car for when we visit from London). When I compare the two, DD2 looks so uncomfortable in the Joie compared to the Britax. I think it fundamentally might not be the most comfortable seat.

If you try the car in the front seat, double check the manual first to ensure that's permitted. Not all car seats can be in the front seat. I agree that would be the best thing to try in your circumstances. Perhaps the style of seat is uncomfortable for him - could you borrow a friend's to see if he reacts any differently?

OP, mumsnetters are very judgemental about car seats that are front facing.

In practice many babies don't tolerate rear facing and why would they? I'd be sick the whole time.
In real life, it's perfectly fine to front face from 15 months as per the law and many do. There are fantastic car seats available.

We have the cybex ones with the airbag inbuilt so although they are front facing, they are much safer for small kids than being FF in a harness. If you are in a crash the airbag stops their head from flying forwards and breaking their neck (which is the big danger with FF seats).

Ours love them, they look super comfy and will happily sleep in them.

It would be too much of a risk for me. I feel for you though, it’s a very stressful situation.

You've got a Spin seat so why not try it on a short local journey? If it helps you could FF for local driving RF for motorways if you feel more comfortable with that. I assume you've tried having someone sitting next to him in the back?

My daughter was front facing from about 6 months.

Grab your hard hat Barbie.

My dc were both forward facing at 10 months. They both hated the car and were much happier forward facing. I decided it was safer for me to drive less stressed. I couldn't care less if anyone judges.

We had the Cybex Pallas 2 forward facing with the bump bar from just before 1 as my little one (nearly 12) had out grown the first seat. At that point I don't think many children rear faced after the first seat. I suppose you need to look at the research and make an informed choice. Like clearly rear facing is much bigger today than it was so presumably newer research has shown it's much safer, but also front facing seats haven't be outlawed. Look at the Cybex Pallas 2 as the bump bar gives extra protection when forwards facing.

I’d agree

Of course you can try it. If it still doesn't help then try a new car seat.

I front faced both of mine early on. I don't really do motorway journeys though.

Distracted driving is much more of a risk than forward facing, even at 15 months.

That said, yes I would try to wait until 15 months or possibly 18 months (even if you have the old Joie Spin, which is allowed to FF from 9kg.) You could also try keeping the temperature in the car cold - slightly cooler than you would like for comfort. And remove the rear seat headrest so that DC can see the horizon through the boot window. Try to block out the view from the side window, if possible - this can help reduce travel sickness. Experimenting with timing after eating can help too, and if you have an "eco transmission mode" on your car try activating that/looking into how to do smooth and eco-friendly gear changes. All of this can help reduce travel sickness.

If you do change to FF full time, it might be worth considering changing to the Cybex Anoris if it is feasible financially, or Britax Trifix 2 as these are the best-performing FF only seats - the Joie Spin performs well for RF but might not be as good for FF (it is hard to tell exactly). FWIW, my 3yo is mostly FF in the Joie 360 Spin - I am not suggesting that it is unsafe, you should not switch seats if it would cause financial hardship.

OTOH you might wish to stick with the spin seat if DC tolerates it when they are sleeping for example, so that you can switch to RF for those journeys and use FF only when DC is likely to be distressed by it.

If you do FF in the Joie seat, you need to take all the inserts out. The inserts are only for RF. And be sure to position the straps correctly - they need to be parallel and vertical over the shoulders, because they are so grippy it is easy for them to get caught on DC's clothing and form a V shape over the shoulders but this isn't correct. Strap position is much more critical for FF safety. Headrest should be positioned so that straps are level with top of shoulders if possible, if DC is between two settings, then the higher setting should be used for FF (lower for RF).

Yes I would.