School fines help pls

curlyk456 · 2025-01-03T23:58:08+00:00

We have a school fine come thru the post today. It was dated 10th December, it says fine must be paid within 21 days of receipt of the letter. Yet when we have gone to pay it, the fine has doubled. So it's not 21 days from the 10th, just from receipt of the letter. There's no number to call on the letter, really don't know what to do. The letter just came in the post, didn't have to sign for it or anything. We had a huge bunch of post come thru at the same time- I'm assuming festive period delay? Has this happened to anyone, I will pay it. Just not double because we didn't get it in the time they are stating

MoleAndBadger · 04/01/2025 00:02

I'm not doubting you as such but I am surprised that the letter states 21 days from the date of receipt. It seems strange especially as there is a statutory period of time within which you are allowed to pay the discounted amount.

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:06

It literally says from date of receipt and on the council website too. But how can they/we prove that as it's not signed for. They can't do it from date of the letter as that's not really fair because the post can take time. We live on a new build estate and our post is always delayed and sometimes we get it in bulk like this.

OP posts:

MoleAndBadger · 04/01/2025 00:16

Just reading the info on different council websites, it seems that many allow 2 days for delivery time before the notice period starts.

There’s no right of appeal - if there are issues with your mail and you've not made alternative arrangements (eg collecting it from the RM), I can't see that you will be able to pay the discounted amount.

JacquesHarlow · 04/01/2025 00:19

What did you get fined for, @curlyk456 ?

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:21

You will have known you were getting a fine. Local authorities are unable to issue a fine unless the school can evidence that its been made clear to you that you'll get a fine (for example if you take a holiday).

That letter you got cannot have been sent if the school had not already evidenced to the LA that you were told.

So claiming it arrived late isn't relevant really. You've no right to appeal anyway. You took the holiday, so you should be expecting it.

(I'm an Attendance Lead - requesting these fines is my day job)

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:23

@MoleAndBadger thanks for checking. I'm so stressed now, the delay in post isn't our fault. Surely they will realise that's out of our hands. It came thru the post so we had no notice of it beforehand

We took the kids on a religious trip, expected to pay it tbh but I don't think it's fair as there have been ppl I know personally who have gone on 'normal' holiday and haven't been fined at all. But im not even arguing that, I just wana pay the actual fine and not the double as we didn't even receive it on time 😭

OP posts:

TwattyMcFuckFace · 04/01/2025 00:23

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:21

You will have known you were getting a fine. Local authorities are unable to issue a fine unless the school can evidence that its been made clear to you that you'll get a fine (for example if you take a holiday).

That letter you got cannot have been sent if the school had not already evidenced to the LA that you were told.

So claiming it arrived late isn't relevant really. You've no right to appeal anyway. You took the holiday, so you should be expecting it.

(I'm an Attendance Lead - requesting these fines is my day job)

Edited

Yeah but how could she pay it before the letter arrived?

The OP isn't claiming she didn't know she was going to get fined.

Just that she went to pay it straight away and due to how late the letter arrived, she now has to pay double.

TwattyMcFuckFace · 04/01/2025 00:25

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:23

@MoleAndBadger thanks for checking. I'm so stressed now, the delay in post isn't our fault. Surely they will realise that's out of our hands. It came thru the post so we had no notice of it beforehand

We took the kids on a religious trip, expected to pay it tbh but I don't think it's fair as there have been ppl I know personally who have gone on 'normal' holiday and haven't been fined at all. But im not even arguing that, I just wana pay the actual fine and not the double as we didn't even receive it on time 😭

Good, I'm glad you're not arguing that.

But to keep the thread on topic, I'm really surprised they can double a fine without sending the letter by recorded delivery.

Surely people should have to sign for them, as this would prove delivery date.

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:26

@TwattyMcFuckFace exactly that. There's no number to call them either. Just email or post but then itl be even later

OP posts:

7ft1garysson · 04/01/2025 00:28

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:21

You will have known you were getting a fine. Local authorities are unable to issue a fine unless the school can evidence that its been made clear to you that you'll get a fine (for example if you take a holiday).

That letter you got cannot have been sent if the school had not already evidenced to the LA that you were told.

So claiming it arrived late isn't relevant really. You've no right to appeal anyway. You took the holiday, so you should be expecting it.

(I'm an Attendance Lead - requesting these fines is my day job)

Edited

OP has not said anywhere that she didn’t expect a fine.

I hope reading comprehension isn’t a large part of your day job 🙈

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:32

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:23

@MoleAndBadger thanks for checking. I'm so stressed now, the delay in post isn't our fault. Surely they will realise that's out of our hands. It came thru the post so we had no notice of it beforehand

We took the kids on a religious trip, expected to pay it tbh but I don't think it's fair as there have been ppl I know personally who have gone on 'normal' holiday and haven't been fined at all. But im not even arguing that, I just wana pay the actual fine and not the double as we didn't even receive it on time 😭

The LA will ask the school what they want to do. Or the LA will tell you to speak to school.

So the next point is - what's your child attendance history like? Because if its really good, then the Headteacher/ Attendance Lead is far more likely to consider leniency. If you have historic poor attendance, or siblings also have poor attendance, or you've a history of multiple holidays, I (personally) wouldn't even bother asking. Its no skin off school's nose to say no.

Also bear in mind - you've only got 7 more days to pay the £160. If you don't pay that within 28 days then the fine goes to a magistrate - which is up to £1000.

If you have a good attendance history though, it's worth making the case. There is a mechanism to have a penalty notice re-issued, effectively restarting the clock. You won't automatically get that leniency though. The default is no right to appeal.

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:33

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Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:33

@LittleHangleton mate, I'm not querying the fine. Il pay the fine. It's the fact that I didn't receive it in the time they have stated and have now doubled it

OP posts:

BigCheese24 · 04/01/2025 00:35

I got a school fine 2 years ago and never paid it. Nothing ever happened. Just ignore it.

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:36

@BigCheese24 wish I had that attitude! I'm too stressy for that

OP posts:

LongDistanceClara44 · 04/01/2025 00:37

Has the fine definitely doubled because of late payment? Just checking as isn't the fine per parent now so might just be double what you were expecting for this reason?

PassMeTheCookies · 04/01/2025 00:39

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:21

You will have known you were getting a fine. Local authorities are unable to issue a fine unless the school can evidence that its been made clear to you that you'll get a fine (for example if you take a holiday).

That letter you got cannot have been sent if the school had not already evidenced to the LA that you were told.

So claiming it arrived late isn't relevant really. You've no right to appeal anyway. You took the holiday, so you should be expecting it.

(I'm an Attendance Lead - requesting these fines is my day job)

Edited

What a silly post. Yes, she may have known she was getting the fine, but she can't pay it without the letter. You're acting as if she should have just called them up and made payment without receipt of a letter. She's obviously happy to pay it, but wants to pay it at the reduced rate that you're entitled to within 21 days of receipt of the letter. Which she couldn't do until she received the letter... today.

BigCheese24 · 04/01/2025 00:40

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 00:36

@BigCheese24 wish I had that attitude! I'm too stressy for that

What's the worst that could happen? Honestly don't let it ruin your Friday night.

I'll be damned if anyone charges me for taking MY child wherever I want to.

When the school issued me a fine, I sent in a strongly worded letter assuring them I wouldn't be paying it and my reasons why.

I never heard back from the school, I did get the fine in the post. I just binned it. My son's in his final year of school now and it's never been mentioned again!

7ft1garysson · 04/01/2025 00:44

PassMeTheCookies · 04/01/2025 00:39

What a silly post. Yes, she may have known she was getting the fine, but she can't pay it without the letter. You're acting as if she should have just called them up and made payment without receipt of a letter. She's obviously happy to pay it, but wants to pay it at the reduced rate that you're entitled to within 21 days of receipt of the letter. Which she couldn't do until she received the letter... today.

Show quote history

Yes, this poster doesn’t seem to have understood the issue. Just regurgitating lots of things they know about fines.

I don’t know how they can double the fine when they have no proof of date of receipt

TwattyMcFuckFace · 04/01/2025 00:50

I wouldn't ignore the fine or refuse to pay it either OP.

But I would argue that they have no proof of when the letter arrived.

My best friend recently missed a hospital appointment because the letter (sent 3 weeks before her appointment) arrived the day after it.

She was gutted as she'd been waiting in pain for months.

Mandylovescandy · 04/01/2025 00:51

Going through similar with missed letter for a toll charge. We aren't disputing the fine but the doubling of it as we didn't get the letter which would have had the payment details to pay. Has escalated and is very frustrating. Can you pay them what you owe and dispute the rest?

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 01:01

Will have to call on Monday. Seems to be an attendance helpline but not a number for the actual fine. Not sure if they can help.

I have a feeling they will say sorry we can't help and you will have to go court.

Don't know how u can give a fine with a time limit but no proof of it being given at a certain time.

OP posts:

Original poster

curlyk456 · 04/01/2025 01:02

@Mandylovescandy it's an automated system so it's gone up double. No other way of paying.

How has urs been escalated ?

OP posts:

spoonfulofsugar1 · 04/01/2025 01:07

BigCheese24 · 04/01/2025 00:35

I got a school fine 2 years ago and never paid it. Nothing ever happened. Just ignore it.

That's not helpful, my council doggedly pursue attendance fines as i know from experience.. your council may have been lax but ops might not be and it could cost a lot more if she does ignore it

WellThisIsStupid · 04/01/2025 01:23

LittleHangleton · 04/01/2025 00:32

The LA will ask the school what they want to do. Or the LA will tell you to speak to school.

So the next point is - what's your child attendance history like? Because if its really good, then the Headteacher/ Attendance Lead is far more likely to consider leniency. If you have historic poor attendance, or siblings also have poor attendance, or you've a history of multiple holidays, I (personally) wouldn't even bother asking. Its no skin off school's nose to say no.

Also bear in mind - you've only got 7 more days to pay the £160. If you don't pay that within 28 days then the fine goes to a magistrate - which is up to £1000.

If you have a good attendance history though, it's worth making the case. There is a mechanism to have a penalty notice re-issued, effectively restarting the clock. You won't automatically get that leniency though. The default is no right to appeal.

Edited

Show quote history

The council cannot refer it back to the school, nor ask the school what it wants to happen. Once the school has referred to the council for the fine, it's nothing to with the school.

Similarly, arguing your case, or using good attendance records, as a way of getting the council to revoke the fine, is pointless. The council are bound by their code of conduct (and all councils now have to have the same policies as of end of August 24).

The only way for OP to offer any kind of defence, or plead extenuating circumstances, is via the court. That would almost certainly fail as it's struct liability and the OP has no defence,