To think that teaching/encouraging the concept of HELL to a 10 YO is a bit young?

[Pavlovthecat]

AIBU

to think that encouraging a 10 YO to write about hell is inappropriate?

It is a CofE school, and it is very well written.

But I was [shocked] that this was advertised on their website to promote the school.

I'd be amazed if any church school taught about Hell in those terms.

I'd be even more amazed if any of the preachers at my church taught about Hell in those terms.

They sound much more like something he's got out of a story book than anything that he's likely to come across in 21st century Christianity.

Very creative writing for a 10yo though!

How is Hell taught in 21st Century Christianity? Do they not refer to the descriptions in the Bible?

Well I was an expert on heaven, hell, limbo and purgatory by the age of fice, with all the accompanying fear and neurosis. This is a major reason why I wouldn't touch a church school with a barge pole.

I went to a Catholic primary and Catholic secondary and although we covered hell on occasion it was never outlined like that. DD1 goes to a non denominational (sp ) school so won't be doing anything like that. YANBU

(good spelling, devil!)

I think it's a really good piece of writing and dont believe for a moment it is anything other than a piece of creative writing. I would be very happy if ds wrote something like that at school.

by the age of five, of course

Beanisteve, in my experience, Hell is not talked about all that much by a significant number of 21st century Christians .

There are significant number of people - including theologians - who are uncertain whether the whole concept is consistent with an all-loving and all-forgiving God. Some think that is simply signifies the absence of God - nothingness - oblivion - in contrast to eternity in the presence of God. I don't know many people who take the Biblical descriptions literally, as opposed to taking them as images/allegories designed to scare people/focus their minds.

And I don't know of anywhere in the Bible that talks about devils with pointy tails or "big black, dribbly teeth"!

But then, I am representative of a rather moderate part of the church - I'm sure someone will be along to contradict me in a moment. Such is the nature of faith - no black and white answers, only a search for something that makes sense. IMHO

I have been reading the posts with interest thinking oh I am being unreasonable, oh I am not.

Well I have been thinking about it all morning. And it does not sit right with me

DH came home from work, I showed him the poem, said it was advertised at the primary school on their website, nothing more, let him give his own reaction.

"f*cking hell' (he is not a strict christian, clearly), is THAT what she will be taught. First impressions. he also pointed out the full name being mentioned.

So. On discussion as to why I feel this is inappropriate, at least for me if I am considering sending my child there is this.

1. It is not counteracted by any other piece of work about Heaven, to demonstrate a balanced view.
2. They have used it as an advertising material demonstrating the work produced by a child at their school, a christian school. And it is negative. There is no explanation of whether this is a piece of work undertaken at their request, or from the child's own imagination, or the context under which he wrote it.
3. God is, I thought meant to be all-loving. I understood it as did DH, that teaching of christian values was not comfortable with teaching such a strong concept of Hell in such a form. In which case, why use this to advertise their ethos?
4. There were several other pieces of work, Hell being the first. The others were about a cat, about Love (it was not too articulate, usual 10 yo writing I would think, very short!) and a long descriptive poem about being in a Damp Dungeon with a dead body. Not too positive in my opinion.

If they want to evidence the fact that they are a christian school (which of course they do), why not publish a peice about God and what that means to the children? Or something similar? Would no child in the school in a whole year not be able to produce something in this positive light in the same articulate manner as this little boy? Would this have been the only religiou based piece of work he would have written himself?

I just did not realise religion was meant to scare, and this advertising indicates the school in question certainly are not concerned if they give this message.

The internet gave me these passages about Hell:

Matthew 13:42: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving ... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone."

and this which is from a guide for children

Various faith groups within Christianity embellished the descriptions of Hell that appear in the Bible. Starting in the mid-1850's the Roman Catholic church distributed a booklet written by Fr. John Furniss called "The sight of Hell." It was intended to educate and motivate children in Ireland and England. William Meagher, the Vicar General in Dublin wrote an approbation, saying that he found that the booklet had "a great deal to charm, instruct, and edify our youthful classes, for whose benefit it has been written." Some of Fr. Furniss' thoughts are listed below. 6 Remember that this booklet was written for children!: Hell is located in the center of the earth, 4,000 miles from the surface.

"Millions on millions are shut up there. They are tormented with the most frightful pains. These dreadful pains make them furious."

There is "an upper hell, and a middle hell, and a lower hell." Punishments became progressively more horrendous as one descends.

"...torrents, not of rain, but of fire and brimstone, are rained down."

"...hell is filled with sulfur and smoke... they are stifled and choked each moment..."

"There is in hell a sound like that of many waters...It is the sound of oceans of tears running from the countless millions of eyes. They cry night and day."

"...the devil is king of hell, he is also judge."

"The prison of each soul is different, according to its sins."

"The [devil's] first stroke will make your body as bad as the body of Job, covered from head to foot with sores and ulcers. The second stroke will make your body twice as bad as the body of Job...How then will your body be after the devil has been striking it every moment for a hundred million of years without stopping?"

"The sinner lies chained down on a bed of red-hot blazing fire!"

"How will you feel in hell, when millions of...[flesh-eating worms] make their dwelling-place in your mouth, and ears, and eyes, and creep all over you, and sting you with their deadly stings through all eternity."

Various inmates, little boys, girls, teenagers, and adults: are forced to wear a dress made of fire,

are trapped in a burning coffin,

are forced to stand on a red-hot floor,

suffer from blood boiling in their veins, or

are trapped in a red-hot oven.

"A mortal sin of one moment deserves the everlasting pains of hell." That is, eternal torture in Hell is a reasonable punishment for a single brief indiscretion lasting only a brief instant on earth.

www.religioustolerance.org/hel_bibl.htm

Beanie - is this taught in a religious primary school though? Or is this more likely to be taught at Sunday school?

I agree totally about the full name thing, and I'm surprised that it's used. I still don't think though, that publishing a piece of creating writing as an example of what is achieved (just as some schools do an annual publication with various samples in) necessarily means that the school is pushing a particular view. If, for example, a poem about the horrors of war was published, would you assume that the school was strongly pushing a pacifist approach and would be brainwashing your kids? If a poem about heaven was published, would you expect a bloodthirsty poem about hell to be there to balance the equation? I think you're picking on one particular piece on their website (and incidentally I assume they update/amend/put various writing on periodically) and making all kinds of assumptions about it.

Alfiesbabe - maybe I am, and no I would not be so upset about a poem about Heaven. It is not scary, and teaches positive things about God.

And of course I am making assumptions. Thats what people do, make asumptions based on evidence given. It is not my place to draw conclusions and think about if this is or is not taught, its what they are portraying. And is why I am surprised they used this piece of work. People make assumptions and when people create a website they usually do so realising that people are going to make assumptions, and create the most positive advertisement for whatever it is they are advertising.

But I guess, the point about whether IABU about it being taught. It appears from what people are saying here, that it probably is not actually being taught. It came from somewhere else. So my issue is now about something other than the OP!

LOL - that's the sign of a good thread then Pavlov! It's got us all thinking!! TBH I'd be really surprised for a school to be teaching this kind of thing. I really would. Why not go and visit, and mention that this was a worry of yours. They probably haven't even given it a thought! But I agree it's useful for them to know how it may be interpreted.

Well, I'm one of the mad fundies, and even though my kids know about hell, we wouldn't teach it in a religious context in that way. So I'm with the 'creative writing, not religious teaching' opinions.

sounds very stereotypically bible thumping Baptist, hellfire and brimstone to me. Apologies to the moderate Baptists out there.

also brought up catholic and had catholic education all my life and never encountered this, that is, till i went to an evangelical christian church thing out of curiousity.
it killed my curiousities!

the catholic church has a more humanist way of interpreting the concept of hell (and purgatory) these days. they have moved on but unless you get into a theological discussion about it with people who have had some training with the church, most people don't seem aware of it.

I think it is appropriate. Hell is a fascinating concept (whether you believe in it or not), children are intrigued by it, it provides an excellent stimulus for writing as can be seen in this boy's poem.

If it was a toss up between imagination ("this sort" or any other) and positive Chrsitian principles at all times, I know what I'd choose.

If you object, yeah, it's not the school for you.

Depends what you mean by 'being taught'. Heaven and Hell were possibly the stimulus for the writing.

Well, as a fundier-than-yer-average Baptist, I can pretty much assure you that I've yet to hear a teaching about hell that was that shockingly gleeful. If I honestly thought that was what they were teaching children in a religious sense, rather than a creative writing sense, then no, I wouldn't be sending my kids there. But I really, really doubt that that's the case.