To think this child maintenance benefits loophole is ridiculous ?

[Strawberrrrry]

I was talking to my sister today. Love my sister, don’t begrudge my nieces and nephews etc. However, I find this benefits loophole ridiculous, though I appreciate she doesn’t make the rules and is just claiming what she can. Anyway.

My sister has just broken up with her partner, they have two kids together. He is a high earner and child maintenance will be £1,200 a month (via the child maintenance service).

She earns £900 a month working part time, school time hours.

She has just put in a claim for benefits and she has been told she will receive £1,400 a month. This includes housing benefits, income support, child benefit. It doesn’t include discounts from council tax etc.

This brings her total monthly income to £3,500 and some change (I have given rounded figures). Completely tax free. I had assumed her benefits would be reduced as she gets a high amount of child maintenance. But no. They don’t count it. She admits herself that her monthly income is massive and she did first assume that the children’s maintenance would warrant some sort of deduction.

As I said, fair play to her as she is only doing what the system allows. However, I can’t help but feel this is a huge loophole, and there should be some sort of cap i.e once you are getting £500+ a month in child maintenance, it starts to affect benefits? And I realise her ex could lose his job at any point or stop paying, but if that happens surely benefits could reassess at that point…

It just seems ludicrous that someone can be getting that level of monthly income from maintenance & benefits, completely tax free. I’m sure it can’t just be my sister in this position.

AIBU?

The great feather bed of the state.

I get that much a month for 3 children I work plus universal credit one of my children is also disabled
my ex checked out of parenting completely when I left him I’m 💯 responsible I pay and do everything on my own you think I should be punished more for getting my kids and myself out of a toxic environment?

My ex was given a full month to make payment he made it on the 31st so i got it the following month he would regularly make a payment July 1st then nothing until August 31st skip September and October pay when they threatened him in November skip December and wait till January when he was recalculated and told to start making payments in March in March he would claim that he didn't have the letter so he would pay what he "was told on the phone" April/may he would pay June he would skip then we were back in July again he did this FOR YEARS they got a court order to get the money so he is quitting work

That's why the system changed

CM is not earnings.

It's not just about the ex not paying it's about them paying on time too. My ex messes about with when he pays but never enough to get himself in trouble. But when you are poor as you are if you are entitled to benefit that wait for 3 weeks past the date it's due can mean you literally cannot feed the children etc.

I imagine the admin of changing benefits each month depending on if an ex has paid would cost the tax payer more than just paying to those who do get high CMS amounts. I see that argument around the child benifits for families with two parents close to the £50k

It’s only like that just in case the nrp doesn’t pay and the children won’t go without. If your sister’s ex suddenly stopped paying maintenance, the benefits would still be there.

Benefits used to be taken in to account and were deducted accordingly because of the maintenance. That’s how it should be in an ideal world, but because so many nrps decided not to pay and the benefits were lower too, it left the rp and children struggling.

There is a cap. There’s a cap on how much he would pay which is bloody ridiculous.
There would be no cap if we were still in the same household, they would expect to live the same lifestyle as their parent

Nope. Happily married, pay a shit load of tax. Receive nothing.

I just understand how many men fuck the system compared to women.

It just seems ludicrous that someone can be getting that level of monthly income from maintenance & benefits, completely tax free

It was more ludicrous in the past when it was possible to literally abuse your ex by starting/stopping/starting/stopping maintenance which had to be declared and then took weeks each time to sort out whilst benefits were stopped. It was also ludicrous that paying parents paid that £1.2k and then only £20 of it could be kept if benefits were claimed.

And if your sister works, she isn't getting Income Support.

Thousands of us have had to being up children on one wage and benefits because of bitter exs who play the system. I for one can't get annoyed when some parents get what their children are owed.

a similar situation happened to my neighbour. When she got divorced she much much better if financially (as from what I can gather they didn’t share finances). She did not spend the CM on the children and now goes on very regular spa weekend away and cruises….the children haven’t been away with her in 5 years. I found it all very odd!

100%!

Too many people on benefits have higher or comparable living standards to those in full time employment. Where is the incentive to work?

I've read on here about single mothers with 2k a month of housing benefit in London with 2 kids. I had to move out of London because I couldn't afford that much rent. Try nursery fees on top too!) - also free to those on benefits. The system is crazy.

Why do working people have to move (because their taxes are so high) so that those who don't work get to stay close to family or live in the centre of expensive cities?

There are 11m working age people on benefits now. It took labour 11m votes to win last election. All they will do is keep shafting taxpayers and giving more benefits to their voters.

But being able to keep a roof over your own head is supposed to be one of the incentives for work? Alongside being able to feed and clothe yourself? I think the OPs suggestion of a sensible cap for those getting a very high level of maintenance plus benefits is a good one.

In my workplace, the working poor who earn just above the UC top up threshold are frequently struggling more than families who exist
solely on benefit income. Welfare in the UK pays more than work in some situations, unfortunately.

There is no real incentive to aspire and do well. Lose your job/get made redundant in an owned property? You are entitled to far less help than in rented/social housing. Earn highly and pay into a good pension? Gain no benefits in old age. Never work and claim pension credit? Rent/council tax discounts, even bloody free TV licence. Own your own home/have savings and get unwell in old age? Taken from you to pay for a care home and your family can’t inherit more than £20K. Never own a home and have no assets? Free care. There are huge problems with our society sadly but if anyone points them out then they are a Tory who wants people to be starving in the streets. 🙄.

It's obviously changed drastically since I was in a similar position,29 years ago. I was working part-time and received £120 per month from my exH (he somehow managed to convince the CSA that he was earning far less than he actually was). I had half of the £120 deducted from my Family Credit payments!

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

It would make some sense, except fathers will sometimes just stop paying.
My ex pays £300 a week /£1200 a month for my 3.
However, over the 10 months we have split, there have been 5 or 6 weeks that he hasn't paid it.
Which is inconvenient now, but if the DWP were to take into account that £1200 and deduct it, I'd be stuffed.

FWIW, a conversation yesterday "I can pay child support on Friday, but I'll need to borrow it back, and I won't have money the following week, I'll try to pay the week after"

So that'll be £900+ that I would have as a black hole.

If CMS was enforced and then deducted from benefits I could see it working and being fairer.

Well, I must be doing benefits wrong. I am classed as unable to work... and the grand total I get every month is just over £800. That is meant to be a wage replacement, because I can't work.

People on lots of £k.. it will be the housing benefit, especially if they are in London. Or are people on benefits not allowed to live in London?
Or they are disabled, or have disabled children. Are you jealous of that?

People, like you, who think people on benefits are raking it in... have no idea what actual benefits people get. If you think it is that much, then quit your job and go on UC.

It's easy to day this till you are a lone parent trying to juggle the demands of full time work. I did it - still do - but it has not been without consequences including my children being the first to be dropped off and last to be picked up, and frankly, it has impacted my mental health massively. My children grew up in a fraught, busy household and were pushed from pillar to post. It was awful for all of us.

To lone parent successfully all the jigsaw pieces need to fit - school, wrap around care, being able to get to work (car, public transport), back up to manage illness, enough money to pay for it all.....it doesn't work for everyone, no matter how hard they try.

There was an absolute similar post to this last year.

Really? How do you know it’s not spent on the children? Were her children fed/clothed/housed/looked after or did she also not do that whilst doing spa weekends?

Is that £800 from which to pay your full rent/mortgage, full council tax, full gas and electric, etc? Because £800 to pay all bills is a struggle, I agree. But £800 for food/disposable income while also having your rent paid,
huge council tax discount, etc, is a luxury that most working people won’t have.

Does she work in a school?

Once she s saved up 16k her benefits will stop

Men should be forced to pay towards their children and benefits should be even and fair for everyone.

House is owned outright, so I don't get housing element.
I have to pay 20% of council tax, but that is only recently. I was paying full rate for years (it was too complicated to apply for).
Yes, it is a "luxury" most people don't have, but they also take home a lot more than me to begin with.

Too many people on benefits have higher or comparable living standards to those in full time employment. Where is the incentive to work?

Yeah, your ignorance is showing, love. The majority of those claiming UC are working. As is the OPs sister.

A good sign of a civilised society is how the sick and vulnerable are supported. You never know when it might be you and your family that needs some help.