To think autism gets worse with each generation

[eastereggg]

Genuine question.

Why does it seem that autism gets worse with each generation?

Example: a mother is a late diagnosed autistic but her child is very clearly autistic and displays much more severe characteristics than she did. The grandmother would probably be diagnosed autistic today as well.

There seems to be a recurring pattern that I'm seeing where autism is getting more severe with each generation. Is there an explanation for this?

Have you been to.tribunal ?
I did a change of circumstances when my son was nine and took.It to tribunal.where he,was,awarded..HR M under SMI.

Also I wrote my above reply whilst said nd child was sat on my head trying to chew my hair and humming the tune from a 80s commercial he watches on YouTube 100s of times a day, so I forgot to reply to you @eastereggg but I'm looking into my family tree a bit more.
My parents have LD and I presume my dad had ADHD and I suspect my mum has autism.
But from what I've seen from my family history we're all predisposed to MH (lots of psychosis) problems, lots of my family are undiagnosed ND because they're so awful as people. It's not just years of generational poverty and trauma, its addiction, violence etc and abuse. But as we understand ND more and more I'm realising "scummy uncle mick" whilst still an absolute prick, he also struggles with a world not designed for a man with LD and likely ASD. That's definitely adding to him being a prick.

I'm really open minded about all this. But Autism is not a disease. I don't want to patronise anyone with really significant struggles and kids with significant struggles here. This theory however suggests that Autism is a defect, mutation, something gone wrong. I don't believe this is the case where I see individuals with ' superior' thinking ( got no idea what word is apt here to describe this; thinking is probably not the correct word).

I'm thinking of the lyrical geniuses ( Eminen cites his Asperger's in his music,) I absolutely believe that he's ND based on all I've read, you have Silicon Valley geniuses, you have talented actors like Anthony Hopkins. I think we just don't understand this enough to know but I don't believe it's defective. It's very complex and there are issues regards co morbids which may be seen as defective I guess. Certainly not a disease.

@Verbena17 presumably you are talking of the outdated and disproved research of years ago.

In the most recent research biomarkers have been identified in utero where the brain and skull develop differently in children who later turn out to be autistic, rugby ball shaped - longways in 2nd trimester and returning to normal shape by the 3rd, DDs brain and head also followed this pattern and I had extra scans to monitor it not for autism though. That is nothing to do with vaccines, my DBro, DDad, multiple Aunts and Uncles, DGrandparents born in the 1930s all also displayed traits of autism, DGDads sibling was also institutionalised neither my DDad or DGP had the MMR.

This is me! Slapped into submission at home. Always had to mask at home. That was the 80’s. Constantly told I was a miserable cow, lazy, useless. I created an acceptable version of myself in my late teens and 20’s that would rub along smoothly with them. Lots of fake smiles and laughs, so much physical annd mental effort to display a certain personality and arrange my face into a suitable presentation.

Ah yes that makes sense. I need to go look at the Temple Grandin book again and the structural differences she references in her studies.

This is offensive nonsense.

Autism is a neurodevelopmental condition. People's brains work differently. This is a different way of being human. It is not a mutation. Biological hard markers of autism, including genetic markers, remain elusive despite decades of research.

The NHS states, 'no one knows what causes autism or even if there is a cause'.

The NHS also states that vaccines do not cause autism.

But regardless of how you like to think of it Autism is caused by the cells in the brain mutating, end of, if you don’t want to think of it in that way then don’t talk about genetics…… because genetics is based on cells and their mutations……

For those who need it spelling out, the source of the data showing a massive increase in autism (in the US but actually it's global) is the Autism and Developmental Disabilities Network of the US Centers for Disease Control. Not Dr John Campbell himself, not RFK Jr. So that it's clear where you can see the data presented, here is the link again--sorry for the repeat. These figures clearly indicate an environmental, not genetic, cause.

They think that autism (and ADHD) are caused by multiple genes, many of which we haven't yet identified. Essentially the theory goes that the more of the genes you have, the more "severe" the autism, and some of them may also sort of be "activated" by environmental factors e.g. lead exposure, birth hypoxia. It's possible to have some genes associated with autism, but not be autistic. It's similar to how someone can have a genetic risk for e.g. heart disease and might need to be more careful about their diet compared with someone else without that risk.

It's more complicated than that, and not as clear cut as diet and heart disease, but as a very simple starting point. It would make sense that a parent may pass on some genes relating to autism and the other parent may pass on some genes and these can combine to result in a different presentation.

But I think you need to look at other factors which are likely to lead to this observed pattern too.

The more impairing a person's autism is, the earlier in life it tends to be recognised. Autistic parents may have DC with milder presentations which aren't picked up until later in life (or at all), but you notice the DC with more impairment.

I remember autistic children (the sibling of a friend; the child of an adult family friend) who were intellectually disabled, so more impairing presentations of autism also existed in previous generations. Those children, now adults, are unlikely to have children of their own, so the order of a more-impaired parent having a less-impaired child is less likely to happen than the other way around. Autistic adults who have children but struggle to look after their children due to their difficulties may also have the children removed or placed with another family member, so again you would not necessarily see this. If you are aware of a child who has been adopted or is in foster care, you would not necessarily know their background.

I understand that autism rates are increasing, and some of this is due to increased parental age (which affects chromosomes) and some is due to higher survival rates in newborns who are born small, early, or don't get enough oxygen at birth. It's possible this is doing more of the "activation" of the genes which have been present through the generations.

I hate it when people like you try to make out that autism isn’t a disability. Autism is a disability causing a number of deficits in social functioning and understanding! I class what autism is defined as as a malfunction of the wiring of the brain for that reason. I am autistic and it had adversely effected my life

But it.quite,literally is,in my sons,case they have done a micro array blood tests and found a chromosome deletion
Yes he has co morbid disabilities but I don't know how you separate the two where does one start and the other end
I

Or is it all just profound autism
I know some people don't likes to be associated people like my son here we are .

just as a sidenote, does anybody have the contact details of a specialist in autism to help with an application for PIP please?

🙏

I'm not being critical btw. I'm trying to engage in debate about it rather than trying to attack you and your posts. It's a very interesting subject for us all to have a healthy debate about.

I accept that I myself do and will often say things that are really offernsive and patronising to ND people and I'm ok to hear that - it helps expand my understanding.

No offence intended 🙏

Why does the NHS disagree with you on this?

Because neurodivergent people are attracted to like minded people, it’s very particular we can suss it out in other people. It’s like looking for your own species 😂

It's complex isn't it. I think whoever said this term ' autism ' just isn't enough to differentiate individuals is right. People are lumped into one homogeneous group atm as our discussions demonstrate.

Your example with your loved ones is so different to say someone like Anthony Hopkins. Yet, we have one diagnostic term, and 3 categories of differentiation there. It's not enough.

I'd love to see much more researched and understanding in my lifetime for all of us.

@x2boys I haven't, I spoke to someone on the helpline after my wee lad needed stitches on his forehead after a massive incident, basically the lollipop lady who he'd never even looked or acknowledged as far as i knew, was a different one one day and he ran into the road and headbutted the floor, he managed to twist himself out of the pram straps and almost caused a accident. I explained this and the school even let me send their write up on it. Anyway I was just so upset because the woman I spoke to said "but lwren he CAN walk". I think that just took the last bit of fight out of me if I'm honest. I also felt as though I was describing a monster, not my baby on the forms. My son can attack me in excess of 50 times a day if something really devastates him but he can also sit on me and ask for 50 kisses, it's less likely than giving me a crack in the chops, but i found it soul destroying constantly explaining my small lad was so violent.
Maybe when I'm not so burnt out from the constant fighting for him I will try again.

Something lovely to add, my son gets a taxi and escort to and from school each day and he adores the taxi driver, during the holidays if I need to go somewhere the taxi driver gave me his number and will come pick us up so it's much less stressful than a unknown car etc. Some people just get it and those ones are golden.

It's not true in my experience. I am autistic as is my DD. My DD got a lot more support and understanding than I ever did. As a result she completed her degree and has a steady professional job, with support in place to help her keeping. I dropped out of university several times and worked a string of minimum wage jobs that always ended in disaster. I haven't worked for 20 years as a result.

I'm not sure how the data for this lines up, as anecdotally most of my family are at a similar level of functioning regardless of generation, with only one or two exceptions. One of those exceptions is in our youngest generation, though her coping skills and "functioning level" are now higher than mine despite her non-verbal childhood and concurrent learning disability, and the other exception was two generations back died a few years ago.

I'd wager it's at least partially because the more "severe" symptoms someone has, the less likely they are to have children due to a combination of psychological and sociological factors. Therefore, each generation of higher-functioning autistic people will continue to have children until one of those in the younger generation doesn't have children of their own, possibly because of a lower-functioning symptom profile. There is also the fact that, historically, lower-functioning autistic people have been hidden away, sent away from home and generally not spoken of. Even today, I imagine people are far more likely to see a "severely" autistic child out and about in public than a similarly affected adult. This adds to the illusion that young autistic people have "worse" symptoms, or that those presentations are less common in adulthood.

As I say, I have no clue how the genetics and scientific data would back this up, it's more a musing on the sociological side. I'm interested to see if there's any recent published research.

Both my DH and I are autistic and we have 3 children. Only the middle has suspected autism and even so she's currently under assessment its not confirmed..
I don't think there's much rhyme or reason to it. I think there may be both genetic and environmental factors at play.. but who really knows?

Lots of autism in my family. Possibly exacerbated by marrying someone similar. My DS is more autistic than me.

Neurodevelopmental:

1. relating to or involving the development of the nervous system.
2. "a rare neurodevelopmental disorder"

Many things are both genetic and environmental. Height for example - you inherit genes that affect your height but it will can be affected by nutrition, pollution etc. Cancer can have a genetic and environmental elements. Autism appears to be the same according to the current research findings. I cannot see what is wrong with researching the impact of food pollutants and artificial additives. Why on earth is that offensive? Is it OK to look at things like air and water pollution or premature birth rates, is that offensive? Severe autism can be massively debilitating and extremely difficult to manage – if we discovered a pollutant that had a big causal effect and could remove it from use, that wouldn't be a good thing?

And if it's wrong to say that autism involves any kind of deficit or difficulty then how do you define it? ND conditions do involve finding some things difficult. In some cases they also involve being unusually good at some things. But if we're not allowed to say that they make some things more difficult then how are you supposed to identify what help people need and provide it?

Furthermore, if you say having autism or other ND makes you somehow "superior" or gives you "superpowers" then effectively you're saying it's NT people who have the deficit/lack - and that's acceptable presumably?

I’d think there’s some merit in this. The curriculum has grown over the years as knowledge has expanded and there are endless papers on how school culture has intensified with its increasing test culture. Throw in less sports, arts and music due to budget cuts and add in disturbing social media and vast amounts of technology and, at the very least, aren't we more likely to see more autistic burnout?