To think my ex husband raped me?

[MrsSlocombesCat]

Hi. Just trying to come to terms with a few things. I was raped as a child aged 12 and when I met my ex husband I told him all about it. After we had been together a while I stopped wanting him to touch me. I just didn’t want to have sex with him. He started trying to arouse me when I was asleep and it worked, we had sex and I orgasmed but I felt shitty afterwards and a little bit dirty and ashamed. At the time I believed that it was okay but decades on I can’t stop thinking about it. It seems really really wrong but I am confused because I had an orgasm. Was this sexual assault? Or am I deluded?

He didn't have consent while you were asleep, so it was sexual assault. Did it happen more than once?

https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/#:~:text=All%20rape%20and%20sexual%20assault,without%20the%20other%20person's%20consent.

Have a read, this may help you, to see what the law defines it as, I’m sorry you feel the way you did/do.

Way more information is needed here.
It's perfectly normal for one person to attempt to arouse another. And for both to reach orgasm.

Sounds like your dh tried to initiate sex and it worked .

I think the feelings you have are the aftermath of your past . You don’t know what is ment to be right or wrong.

Id be very careful on a decision to report this .
Maybe some Counselling to understand exactly what happened .

No this is not normal. He sexually assaulted you whilst you were asleep

That doesn’t sound like rape to me.

Did you communicate why you didn’t want sex to him? It’s an important aspect of a relationship for many people and I don’t think many people would be happy to commit to a lifetime of no sex.

My husband and I will try it on at night if we wake horny. But if the other person says no, we respect that.

I think if you felt like you'd been assaulted after then that is important.

It's impossible for us to say based on that info, really. It is a normal part of some people's sex life for foreplay to be initiated while asleep or in that kind of half asleep/awake state. We quite often have that kind of sleepy sex initiated by one of us when we wake before the other and start with a cuddle. The consent for the other to do this is implied, we don't have to ask for consent every time we start to get intimate because we trust each other that the other will stop if asked. It's organic in that sense.

But it doesn't sound like it was a normal thing for your relationship? Did you ask him to stop when you were aware of what was happening? Did you respond? Did it only ever happen once?

If you've been left feeling dirty about it for years then something definitely happened to you that you didn't want to, whether it was rape or just a very bad miscommunication that left you feeling used. I agree that talking about it to someone might help you move on from it and figure it out in your head.

IMO this will really depend on whatever dynamics and agreements you had in place as a couple. My WP and I have agreed we can wake each other up whenever and however - but it’s been agreed on and we both enjoy it.

You were asleep and therefore couldn’t consent.
in my marriage it would be ok because we have talked about it and it’s pre-agreed. For you, it sounds like it was in the context of a relationship where sex was off the table so it wasn’t ok.
Do you have someone you can talk to in real life?

My ex use to wake me up for sex, I don’t think it’s rape no, we never discussed it but I think it’s normal in relationships to wake each other up by touching

However you feel about what happened is valid, and you deserve to explore it further.

It's hard to say based on the details you've shared whether this could be legally classified as rape. The detail that matters most is that you clearly feel uncomfortable about what happened, and it sounds like you need to explore the situation further.

The support of a sexual abuse charity may be helpful here, either for closure or to take further action.

It really depends on how asleep you were and whether you believe he believed he got consent.
People do come onto each other whilst half asleep...
I really don't know because I wasn't there.
It may be that your past rape has made you extra sensitive to this incident during which you felt vulnerable because you were half asleep.. and so when you think about it you feel taken advantage of.
In the scenario you describe it would not occur to me at all to feel I'd been raped. If I had been asleep then woken up and eventually got into having sex to the extent I enjoyed it and remembered it all happening.. I would not personally view that as rape.. unless I was clearly not into it (i don't just mean orgasm because you can orgasm when raped.. but i mean not responding, lying there still or trying in any way to move away etc etc) if my husband had carried on in any scenario where I was trying to stop him or lying stock still obviously not responding... then i would consider that assault
But I think if you are clearly awake, even if he woke you up coming on to you, and seem to be enthusiastic about it.. then it's plausible that he genuinely thought you were into it and wanted to do it.

Your feelings are valid whatever the case..
I'm not sure I would think of it as rape but more that you were in a vulnerable state and so engaging in that sex left you feeling even more vulnerable and exploited.

There's a lot of grey area in a scenario like that.
If you'd been asleep most of the way through that would clearly be rape. But if you've woken up and are enthusiastically engaging it's not as clear cut.

I've certainly engaged in sex with people over the years that's felt exploitative and I think they are shit men.. but I wouldn't be able to accuse them of rape.
For example a guy pestered me in my early twenties when I was a bit stoned at a house party.. and I just relented. I let him have sex with me. I regret it. I felt vulnerable and exploited. I think he's a piece of shit.. but I don't think that was rape because I really could have said no. I really could have left.. it was just the mental state I was in at the time meant I relented. And I did give consent. I did engage with it. I was an active participant. If he'd been more sensitive he might have realised he was pestering me into something I wasn't totally on board with, so I do think he's a piece of shit.. I'd urge other women to avoid him but I wouldn't call him a rapist. Just someone who doesn't give much of a shit about their sexual partner.

It's not exactly the same but I just mean to say that men can be pieces of shit and you can feel exploited even if it's not clear cut rape because you did give some kind of consent.

Your ex may have thought he had consent and you were enjoying it but he's still a piece of shit as he knew the frame of mind you were in at that time... he knew you were feeling vulnerable.. and he ignored all that.
So I don't think he's a good person and it's good you aren't still together.

Did this happen once or more than once?

also did you ever say “stop” or “I don’t want you to touch me unless I am awake or I tell you this “touching wake up” is something I want?

If not then I would say no it’s not rape.

Did he have good reason to think you’d agree to being touched while you were asleep? When he was having sex with you, did he have good reason to think you’d consented to having sex? Did you consent? I’m unclear whether you were asleep for the sex (almost certainly rape) or not (still possibly rape but not if you realised what was happening and went along with it of your own free will, whether you felt bad about it or not). Consent is what rape hinges on. Not on whether you had an orgasm.

An orgasm is just a physical response to being stimulated. It doesn’t mean you wanted sex or enjoyed it. Orgasming and other signs of arousal during rape is not uncommon as the fear heightens blood flow which increases the stimulation that leads to orgasm. It’s not a sign of pleasure. Having an orgasm is irrelevant to whether he raped you or not.

Whether it’s rape or not, it sounds like you could use some help dealing with your feelings about it and about your assault when you were child. Please call rape crisis or ask your GP for a referral.

Just because you orgasmed does not exclude this from being rape, it's a biological response.
OP, I strongly suggest you phone the free advice line for Rape Crisis to talk it through, rather than ask MN as you will get a lot of conflicting opinions here. I've found them to be very supportive and understanding of the things that can make you doubt yourself.

There was a few times with my childs dad where we would be asleep… next thing you know we’d be at it, kissing then it would lead to it and then we’d cuddle and go back to sleep. Neither of us could tell you how it began or how it even happened but we both wanted and enjoyed it at the time. We’ve also always said to each other “ wake me up however you please and I’ll never say no” in actual fact I don’t think we’ve ever said no to one another more just it gets a bit heavy and then he hasn’t got it in him to continue too hot or tired 😂😂

the real question is was he fully awake and was he aware that you were asleep/semi awake what was going on. You obviously didn’t want it and he didn’t seek consent either way. It isn’t on you he should have been reading the signs from your body language/engagement into it etc.