To wonder why some men cannot handle responsibility

[Brummymumm]

And how can we avoid having kids with these men if they are perfect beforehand?

I know the same thing applies to women too and never know how you will react to being a parent but I suppose most women stay as they have no choice.

Some of them grow up having had mummy do everything then move straight in with a woman and do 0-20% of the housework. So that's the most they've ever had to do. Throw in the 24hr responsibility of a baby and they baulk.

I think picking someone who has lived independently is a bonus.

They’re not perfect beforehand. No one is perfect. But you can look at their actions while you listen to their words.

An all too common tale on here is a man who won’t change the sheets and his girlfriend might not mind or even notice at first, but she’ll find out after babies that the man who claims not to notice the bed needs clean linen will claim he didn’t notice the nappy needed changing. He did notice, he decided it wasn’t his job as she’d eventually do it while he could do something more fun or interesting.

Agree with what others have said already, and I’d also add that I genuinely don’t think anything really fully prepares you for how much responsibility becoming a parent brings, how you have to be “on” all of the time, even if you think you are prepared for what it is going to be like it doesn’t compare to the moment it becomes real.

And not even just the taking care of and being responsible for a tiny human but also the total change to the rest of your life, can’t just pop to the shops anymore you now need pram/changing bag/nappies/wipes/car seat, can’t just decide at 5pm on a Friday you fancy a night at the pub because someone has to look after the baby, can’t come home and just have a bath and then pig out on the sofa because that baby isn’t going to sit silently for 6 hours, even going for a walk becomes a mission because how long ago did they have a bottle? Nappy change? Are they too hot or cold? It is such a complete change to how your life was pre-kids and it can feel so overwhelming, nothing really prepares you for that. Men still have the ability to experience that and go “actually this isn’t for me”, mum’s don’t get that opt out.

According to on here men are saints to start with then instantly change

It’s all a process. Before kids we shared it all. Both worked full time. Lazy weekends, lower standards.

I became a stay at home mum. Loved it, 3 kids later my standards are higher, I’m the better cook, I speak to other parents regarding childcare, play dates etc.

I started working 3 years ago and have the same expectations of my home, food and my children doing things outside the home. Dh can’t keep up with me. He does try but it’s never quite good enough for me. That’s my problem. Despite it we’ve not killed each other!

Look up threads on red flags. There are usually signs but women tend to look past them and assume men will grow up...not all do, or want to. When people say "you can't change them" or "leopards don't change their spots" it's because they've noted repeat patterns of behaviour from the man. Many women seem to see this as a direct challenge to their nurturing abilities and that needs to stop. No nurturing can help anyone who doesn't want it but it can breed a lot of resentment.

I know plenty of couples who equally took care of housework until children arrive, then it miraculously becomes woman’s work, along with the bulk of parenting.

I’ve met many men who are envious of maternity leave (often seen as a glorified holiday and not hard work at all, when compared to the daily toil of a man), whilst backing away from shared parental leave because it’s emasculating.

Then there’s weaponised incompetence, which you can read about daily here on MN, commonly employed by men to absolve themselves of certain parenting and household tasks.

It’s much easier for men to switch off or go and have adventures or focus on their career, and far less likely that women will do these things.

Some might say it’s nature, some might say it’s sexism. Whatever it is it’s very normal for men to take advantage of it and for too many women to defend them.

Some guys have kids and their lives don't change much.

My wife and I try to keep in our own lanes. I'm a great cleaner, she is a great cook. We both change the same amount of nappies. Overall I do most of the work though but get kept well fed for my troubles.

Where I think we differ most is I'm perfectly happy grabbing both kids and going to soft play or the park or a walk. She will need 3 days notice to plan things.

Most of my friends are hands on Dads. I'd be embarrassed to associate with anyone that didn't take an almost obsessive interest in their own kids. Massive red flag.

Are they ‘perfect beforehand’? Every useless man I’ve known, spouses of friends and family etc, has shown all the red flags previously. More often than not these get ignored or explained away because standards are not high enough.

Agree with this. My DP had never lived with a partner before he met me and by that time he was in his mid 30s so his expectation was to split the life and home admin fairly. We never discussed it but slipped into certain tasks belonging to each of us. For example, I’ve never done any laundry or changed bedding in the 12+ years we’ve lived together and never had to prompt it either as he is always one step ahead of me when it comes to this and a few other things!

People rush into committed relationships. We lived together for years before getting married and didn’t have children for a while after that. We both knew exactly what each other is like, what our strengths and weaknesses are. We reached agreements on domestic chores and made our peace with each other’s shortcomings. Even then, it was hard work when we started a family - lots of shaking down into new roles. I read on MN about people having a baby with someone they’ve only known for a short while, then they are surprised when that bloke turns out to be a useless twat. If they had held on for longer before getting pregnant the useless twat would have manifested himself when it was still easy to get rid of him. Too much rushing into what people want to think is a ‘perfect’ relationship. Most relationships are marvellous to start with - everyone is on their best behaviour for the first year or so, but it’s impossible to sustain.

Honestly, i think the biggest, biggest thing people overlook is a person's attitude to making mistakes, or being careless.
Tv and film is full of conflict = argument, or carelessness = oh but I didn't mean it.
We need to teach people that if you say to a man 'hey, I've noticed that I've ended up doing all the tidying around here, any chance you can pitch in your share from now on?' And his response is ANYTHING other than 'oh my god, I'm so sorry - I didn't realise - of course, let me go and do a tidy now to start off', you RUN.
We are not teaching people basic things like 'you should want to make your partners life easier and work as a team' because we don't teach people how to handle conflict, and women are often encouraged to back down, or 'be understanding as to why' when someone comes back with a load of excuses as to why they haven't done any cooking in 3 months. A decent person, when faced with the reality that their partner has been doing more than them, would be horrified. But people get defensive, and argue back or make excuses, rather than think 'oh I'm so disappointed in myself, I don't want them to be running around after me, I will do better' which surely is the normal reaction to someone you love telling you they are doing all the work? But its just so normalised.

Hmmmm to wonder why some people can’t handle responsibility….