To think ds's behaviour when with ex isn't my fault or responsibility?

[pinotnow]

One of my dc seems to clash so much with his dad now and I am always being contacted to be berated about what he's done and then by ds himself about how he hates his dad and wants to come home.

Ds is a teenager and can be stubborn or reluctant to do much but I don't find him this difficult. Ds1 tells me he hates the way his dad and brother argue and he feels they are both at fault a lot of the time, with him stuck in the middle.

I've just had ranty series of texts from ex about how difficult ds is as he is moaning about the film ex is taking them to and about the restaurant they are going to afterwards. Apparently it's my fault he's impossible and fussy over food. Meanwhile, ds2 has messaged frustrated that his opinions have been asked for and ignored and now ds1 has even messaged asking me to tell ds2 to pack in his moaning!

I'm two hours away and I don't know how I can solve this. Ex just seems rubbish at dealing with ds but also ds2 seems to go out of his way to be antagonistic there but I don't really know what I can do about that as it's not really my issue.
AIBU to stop replying to these messages?

YANBU. Turn your phone off

I would be having a word with my DS about behaving for his dad. I wouldn't want my DS to behave like this, or the lesson it would teach him about how he interacts with people given that he will soon be an adult

Your ex needs to take responsibility and also settle arguments fairly himself.

Its totally unfair for any of them to expect you to get involved remotely.

This would be the appropriate response if it was grandparent he was with, or similar. But his own dad ought to be able to have his own word with ds.

Yes, the problem I have with talking to ds is that his brother says a lot of the time it's not really his fault and ex gets ridiculously wound up by stuff. I have spoken to ds2 about being more assertive with his dad but he complains he isn't listened to. We've had issues with his dad calling him anorexic because he doesn't like his cooking, and similar. I think ds is angry with him a lot of the time.

They have two parents. It's their dads responsibility to parent when he has them not yours and he is behaving like a kid himself. Ignore his messages or tell him straight to deal with his own son. Parenting teens is hard and he needs to have his own strategies for dealing with it and having a relationship with HIS son. Tell your boys only message in an emergency and enjoy YOUR free time. You can't fix this for them.

Yanbu. And I sympathize.

When my ex brought 16yo DS home from a six day visit over Christmas, he complained that DS had dandruff and wasn't very fragrant !! As if somehow I had arranged it. Then I discovered DS hadn't showered once while away. 🙄 I sent him straight up to shower before supper.

Then ex phoned me to 'discuss why DS wasn't clean'. I pointed out that his house had several bathrooms and if he wasn't happy, all he had to do was tell DS to shower. But apparently it's my fault and ex shouldn't have to. Like you, I never have the problem at my house.

Can your ds2 visit his dad less? He is of an age he can choose not to go and the court won't argue. It might make everyone happier.

As above, if DS is a teenager he can chose whether or not he sees his dad. If it’s at the point where they constantly argue then perhaps he should reduce his visits. It’s not appropriate for your ex to be calling you and making it your issue. I would be asking DS if he wants to reduce visits if they aren’t getting on.

I would tell your Ex that he needs to work on his relationship with his son and you are not getting involved. If he tries to moan to you tel him you are not engaging and hang up. Suggest some family therapy where they can both have the conversations they need to have with each other in a supported environment which means your ex has a choice to do something about it or not. . Obviously your DS is not an adult and needs more support but I wouldn’t let him call up moaning when he is with his dad as long as you are confident he is safe. Tell him you will give him an opportunity to talk to you when he gets home so he has some place to vent but put limits on it. I found it extremely draining when DS1 was younger and he clashed with his dad and both of them wanted to bitch to me (and we all lived together). In the end for my own sanity I told them they needed to work it out between themselves which they eventually did.

Your ex is responsible for his relationship with his son, and for addressing any patenting challenges he has - it is not on you to fix his parenting issues. As a grown adult he can find parenting support and information to help him parent his son better.

Your son however will need your support if his dad doesn't listen to him because basically there is nothing your son can do to improve his relationship wth his dad if his dad won't listen. Focus your energy on helping your son understand what a healthy relationship dynamic looks like, and using examples other then his dad, make sure he can identify when an issue in a relationship is a problem that belongs to another person that he cannot fix, and therefore he is not to be blamed or feel guilty or responsible for it.

It is not uncommon for a parent to scapegoat one child that they don't find as easy to control and it sounds like this might be happening.

So “thanks Ex for letting me know. I am sure you are well able to deal with this. I will have a chat with him when he is home. I understand it is difficult dealing with young people’s emotions”. In short, you are also a parent get on with it, I will support, but not much point whinging to me.

Your ex sounds very very immature. Are they of an age where they could just up and leave, and get themselves home?

Additionally , they should learn the difference between “being asked for an opinion” and “being asked, and therefore expect that to be carried out.”

Can you teach them to ignore the crappy things their Dad says? He would probably say “Oh, I didn’t mean it” but they should be asking “so why did you say it?” Or “so how am I supposed to know which bits you say are to be ignored?”

Can you set up a group chat you plus the kids so you can text the “behave” message to all simultaneously.

I'd reply 'sorry I'm busy at the moment. Hope you can work it out.' A few times and then just stop replying.

With your son I'd say it's upsetting to hear he isn't happy and maybe you can talk about it when he is home.

You need to make it so that when your children are with their dad that he is the adult and you have some time to yourself.

sounds like the easiest solution is to stop forcing DS to visit ex if he doesn't want to = it's not an irreversible decision, he can change his mind later, or you could give it a limited period trial and review in say three months.

You don't state how old he is, but if a teen presumably doesn't require child care, and if it's his choice, no need to compensate with films/trips out because he is missing out on trips with his father.

My children are in their 20s now. My ex used to call them feral and it was all my fault. They were (according to him) rude, defiant and did some awful things when at his house - they tell me now that they did things like lock him in the bathroom and cut his curtains with scissors. They weren’t like that at home at all and they certainly weren’t encouraged to behave like that. What they really wanted and were shouting out for was his time. Time with just him and not his new girlfriend. They wanted to be heard and to feel loved. They didn’t feel this when with his so acted up. Now they’re older they often tell me things about what happened when they stayed with him and it breaks my heart. He didn’t really want them he just wanted me not to have them.
funnily enough he went on to have four more children with the now wife. Karma really did come and get him as their behaviour is shocking and he is now a very exhausted looking 50 something and I have my glorious well adjusted children.

I'd just ignore all these texts! You can't get involved, you're not there.
Or maybe message back to ex "this isn't a problem at mine" or something similar and leave at that

This.

God, why are the like this? Ds dad was the same. Would bring him back after a week, complaining he was “filthy”. Bath him then, dipshit!

Mostly I would just say that they aren't like that with me so I can't help you. Specifically with the cinema/ restaurant type thing just say 'oh that's a shame maybe just leave him at home with a pizza'.

I think sometimes the parent who isn't around as much tries too hard to replicate what worked when they were 5 and could be persuaded to do whatever the parent wanted. That doesn't work as well with teenagers so it needs to be a mixture of doing what they want to do or leaving them at home and getting on with his life. Ds1 will soon learn that either he goes to the film and restaurant on offer or stays home with pizza and stream a film, which isn't necessarily a punishment and may well be deemed more acceptable to the teen! Perhaps suggest to the boys that they arrange between themselves to take it in turns to choose the film/ restaurant so they at least see it is fair to each other and if one of them doesn't fancy the other one's choice then they stay home.

Well OP misogyny is alive and well, don't you know women are to blame for everything

So many decent men out there get tarnished with the weaponised incompetence of these useless ex-husbands.

I would tell your ex to stop whining and learn how to parent his DC as their behaviour is fine for you.

Do they still want to go? Would they rather go different weekends?

The "dad doesn't listen to me" was the ultimate final reason I asked my exh to leave. I wouldn't force a kid to go see a man who cannot even do the most basic act of listening to his own child. Not saying that you're forcing him to go, of course, but I'd maybe have the conversation about seeing if they even want to go visit him at all, or much less. It's affected mine,who now doesn't want to go there much, much less to stay overnight, never happens. Not being listened to sounds simple but it's actually really horrible to experience even as an adult.

It's crushing for their developing self esteem, to have an ineffectual bullish man who doesn't care about their feelings or opinions riding roughshod over their visits. And to expect YOU to fix it?! He will never change.

Also, your ex is damaging the relationship between the brothers in my opinion, letting it get to the point where the other sibling is also messaging you to complain about his brother. Don't let your son become the scapegoat just to appease this utter dickhead father. His feelings and outbursts are valid too and clearly have a root cause.

Is he paving the way to leave out this son, and end up being much closer to the "better behaved" one?

Group text to all three. “I’ve looked in my bothered bag and sadly it’s completely empty. Sort out your issues together and stop messaging me as though I can fix your relationship from 100 miles away”