What was she thinking?! TW Racist Memorabilia

[CleaningWoes]

My partner's sister thought it appropriate to gift these to my 12 year old daughter for Christmas. What on earth was she thinking?? I'm horrified as is my partner. Our daughter had no clue what they were. I'm scared to even bin them in case they somehow fall out and up in the street. WTAF

If you looked you would have found discussions - in the papers, people discussing racism and stereotypes types - by the late 70’s my mum understood enough to shove them in the attic

Well, yes - it is understandable that a young child wouldn't draw the connection, but any adult would have been able to recognize the racism - they probably just didn't see racism as a bad thing.

I'm reluctant to post excerpts from Blyton's books, even censored, but they are touched on here:

https://jimcrowmuseum.ferris.edu/golliwog/homepage.htm

And re. an ongoing spat between other posters, I do think the claim that they're "a collectible doll, nothing more" is plainly and obviously false.

Well obviously as a child in the 60s and 70s I wasn't going to be looking at newspapers. My parents only had broadsheets and not on a daily basis. So it's interesting how distaste and opposition is communicated to the population. Opposition to apartheid was on the tv news. This wasn't at that time. I wonder how your mum came to that view, which I think would have been unusual then. My dad often had views which were out of time. Eg he was very supportive of vegetarianism from the 1960s so very different to the main population. I do think the Internet (last 20 years) has allowed views and other viewpoints to spread faster.

In circles where people buy Nazi memorabilia…

My mouth dropped open when I saw the photo, I think you have to ask her why she thought it was an appropriate gift and check all her future gifts, maybe she doesn’t realise, maybe she’s slightly mental but i find that really creepy and weird that she would send those to a child.

I don't think anyone is saying that all white children should have been able to identify the obvious-to-adults racism, and I don't think controversy over the dolls "went mainstream" until the early 80s, but any adult would have been able to recognize the racism - they just may not have viewed it as a bad thing.

Robinson the jam makers only completely retired the golliwog in 2002. It was removed from tv advertising in 1988. So I'd have thought it very unlikely a child in the 70's knew anything about the origins of the doll or the caricature it is based on.

What I would point out to all those decrying the existence of the golly. Look round your home or that of your parents. How many will have some form of war memorabilia around? War was terrible, why are things from that considered acceptable.

Lets move on to connections to the past. How many UK residents today. Black or white, without looking it up could say what their Grandmothers maiden name was, or what her parents did for a living. Very few I imagine. They may well have had an appaling life at the hands of wealthy landowners or factory owners here in the UK.

When you don't know your own history, why are you being vocal about terrible things that happened to people that are todays Great Grandparents five or six times removed.

What the actual fuck are you on about.

If you have a point to make, it escapes me.

Is it that we should now pretend that Gollywogs aren't racist, or something?

As per the OP. It is a discussion about memorabilia. What makes one item that commemorates an appaling thing acceptable and the other not.

Then we look at our understanding and knowledge of our own personal history. Why get so upset about something you have no tenable connection to, when you quite likely have something happen to a far nearer relative, but didn't bother to research your own history to find out.

A whole load of word salad there to excuse something that is overtly racist, and has no place in today's world @ARealitycheck

Why on earth are you trying to justify it?

@BIWI Pointing out the hypocrisy of a number of posters stating how terrible it is. Nobody is saying slavery wasn't abhorent. An ornament of the time is not. How many other pictures, ornaments, toys etc are there of other terrible historical incidents?

I came across a YouTube video of the Jim crow museum in America.The racist memorabilia that people had is jaw dropping.
Toys for children,klan ornaments it's endless what was available particularly in the southern states.

How many other pictures, ornaments, toys etc are there of other terrible historical incidents?

Well, @ARealitycheckthere are absolutely none in my house, and if I was sent some, I would make sure that they were got rid of!

That's a really weird argument, which seems to amount to "some offensive things exist so why be offended by offensive things".

I'm also not sure why you'd assume people in this thread to have no tenable connection to racism - it's still a thing that exists, you know - including the racial slur rooted in the character's name (and, indeed, the ongoing availability of gollywogs in some stores).

You also seem to be implying that only people who are direct victims of racism should trouble themselves with it. Provided that I'm not misrepresenting you, that seems an awfully self-centred view, and I'd wonder if that's generally how you see the world or if your absence of empathy relates solely to issues of race and racism.

I don't see why you think whether-or-not someone knows every bad thing that's happened to everyone in their family tree is in any way relevant to the discussion.

I'd just cut them up and totally destroy them.

Is anyone but you taking about slavery?

Please don't misquote me.

You said:
I'm also not sure why you'd assume people in this thread to have no tenable connection to racism

I pointed out that nobody today has a tenable link to slavery which is what the golliwog is alluding to. Not their parents, grandparents or even great grandparents.

I don’t know about the UK, but I can think of two black Americans I know/know of who do. One was my African-American Studies professor and one is a state Supreme Court judge. They collect them for the historical value and to keep them from being sold to racists.

I'm not misquoting you, though I was apparently confused by you moving onto the topic of slavery, which isn't really relevant here (other than as a cautionary tale against allowing negative depictions of racial groups to do unchallenged).

What about Sambo imagery? Minstrel shows/blackface? Mammy dolls? Books with pickaninny characters? The zip coon caricature? These were also 'of the time'. Just because nobody objected to the blatant racism and caricaturing at the time, doesn't mean it wasn't abhorrent. Have you ever looked at a black person, then looked at a golly doll, and wandered how it might feel for that to be a depiction of them and their ancestors? I'm not sure why so many people want so badly to defend these dolls, it really is beyond me.

Not even black people? Are you really saying no one today has a link back to slavery or no white people ( you know)?

This kind of toy was very common and considered perfectly acceptable when I was a child a long time ago. I never had one myself though. I know it sounds very odd but I and quite a few of my friends discussed it years ago about how we never associated the toy with black people. I mean now it seems blindigly obvious that these toys are totally unacceptable and I can't bring myself to type their name. Could it be that your SIL is unaware what they mean if she is very isolated and old-fashioned? I would wrap securely and dispose of them.

I think this is where I am - I don't find historical artifacts offensive, even though plenty of them reflect ideas people don't hold today.

It's unusual though that someone would be unaware that they aren't really the thing to give a child as a gift, or that they are controversial among adults. However - it's not impossible, she wouldn't be the first person who was not all that caught up with the times. So maybe she was thinking of them as an interesting historical item, who knows.

I think it would be worth chatting with her and just saying they are pretty controversial now, and you don't feel they are appropriate for your dd. Offer to send them back or to the museum as others have suggested.

I think what Reality check is getting at is that there are all kinds of historical items that reflect things we no longer approve or believe in, but we don't get offended by the items in the same way.

Not usually in people's homes, but you can go to museums that have torture implements. Many towns have old stocks in them. You can easily find weird books with weird ideas from long in the past. People put fertility dolls or religious artifacts in their homes or items from cultures with practices we consider very inappropriate. You can find artistic renderings of horrible events, or people hang swords or old rifles on walls.

People may have real disagreements with the ideas or events that were attached to these items, but they don't typically feel offended by their existence and want to smash them.