DM and the booze

[Bigblueelephant]

DM staying with us over Christmas (me, DH, DC9, DC6).

She's always liked a drink, maybe a bottle of wine per night or a bit less. Enough to have an obvious effect on her behaviour.

She's been here three nights and every night it's been apparent. Tonight she was very overbearing and upset the children by grabbing at them (trying to hug them) after they'd said no. I stepped in and very firmly told her to respect their wishes, and she got upset, crying and telling me she wanted to die and drinking more wine.

In the morning she'll act like nothing has happened, but my children are upset and confused and I don't know what to do to best support them. They're not stupid and they know there's a problem with grandma so I need to know how to explain her behaviour in an age-appropriate way.

If anyone has any wisdom or experience I'd be grateful for advice, just on how to deal with the fall-out of this particular episode rather than any long term solutions (which i know I also have to look at)

I'm sorry, I've had family with drink problems in the past and I know it can be horrible. Maybe for now you could say that she wasn't well and ask her to apologise?

Going forward you must not let her be drunk around your kids. If she can't not drink, she can't visit. It can really damage kids when a family member they think of as safe is acting so strangely and making them feel uncomfortable. I have vivid memories from my childhood.

Thanks @PlantDoctor and I'm sorry you've had to deal with this, especially as a child.

I will tell the children she was unwell, that's a good idea. .. what if they have follow-up questions? I want them to know they can trust me to be honest but without giving them too much to cope with.

I can't ask DM to apologise as she will spiral again and I just want to get her out of the house without any other episodes.

And yes, talking with DH we've decided to tell her she can't drink around us again. But I'll tell her on the way to the train station!

She has to leave the home immediately and she will be told that she cannot drink in any of your companies again. Any break of this she will be ushered straight to that train station again, or you will leave and take DC with you!

As for DC I agree appropriate honesty is the answer. MIL was not feeling herself and subsequently had to go home, she is very sorry and will not behave in such a way again. Let them know that you understand it was scary and upsetting and you are on their side and want them to always feel safe especially in their own home. It’s important not to minimise this.

I know how awkward it can be but MIL needs told too. Perhaps once she’s left over the phone. Any push back and upset should be met with a firm “this is not about you, this is about the innocent children whom you upset with your behaviour.” And do not waver. If she gets upset tell her you’ll discuss when she can talk like a grown up and hang up. Do not tolerate or let her centralise herself

Thanks @MissDoubleU . I'm already dreading having to talk to my mum about it as she does not take any criticism at all well and she'll go on and on and on about it (over days and weeks) til I finally back down and tell her she's the best that ever was. She never stops until she gets that confirmation and it makes her quite happy even though it's clearly under duress.

Does she have drink taken when you go to visit with the dc? Your dm has an alcohol problem and for a while ye may all have endured it but now it's becoming a bigger issue as there are children involved. You will need to be straight with her but only talk about it when she is sober. This is very important. Say something like mom your drinking is upsetting me and the dc. I can only see you when you are sober. As soon as you drink we are leaving or she has to leave. Ignore the drama. If you have siblings and they feel the same they may join you on this. She may have to go into rehab or join AA. But at the moment it's about keeping your dc safe and also yourself protected.
Reading up about adult children of alcoholics would help or even having some counselling for yourself where you may be able to practice the words to say and discuss the impact of this on you. It's tough for her but this may..or may not..be a help to her too.

Thanks @junebirthdaygirl . As awful as it sounds, I don't care about helping her right now, I just want to get her and her awful behaviour far away from my family. But I know when I calm down completely I'll want her to be helped and healthy.

We are going to be strict with her not drinking when she visits us, which should be easy enough as we live rurally and she doesn't have a car to get to the shops. Visiting her might be harder but I suppose we'll just state our bottom line and if she drinks, leave.

I don't think this will be easy as when she feels criticised she drinks more than usual and bombards me with texts and calls until I relent. I don't mind her behaving badly towards me (and she's mean even when she's sober) but I cannot have my children feeling unsafe in their own home.

Sympathy. My dad was like this. You are absolutely right not to want to expose the children to it. It’s horrendous to grow up around this.

When my dad in his later years came to stay with me and DD I had a cast iron condition that DD and I would not stay in the same room as him if he had more than two drinks.

He bitched and grumbled about being “controlled” but he did stick to it, at least when he was in my house.

Only you know whether that would fly with your mum: but I think you have to talk to her when she’s sober and you have to make clear her behavior is a dealbreaker with the children.

Otherwise it’s the nuclear option and that may focus her mind a bit.

Thanks @Thepeopleversuswork . Sorry you had to deal with that but glad you found a way to make it work and protect your daughter.

I can't fathom people who are told to drink less and then grumble about it. I remember once a friend telling me on a night out about 15 years ago that I'd had too much to drink and I needed to slow down, and I still remember the embarrassment I felt even through the drunkenness. I can't imagine the shame of being told that by my own family, and then especially doing nothing about it.

@Bigblueelephant

I agree but alcoholics by definition are hard wired to avoid situations where people or circumstances curb their ability to drink.

Drink is the priority over everything, often even including family, so a family member asking them to drink less or point out their excess is a force to be withstood as far as they are concerned.

I remember numerous battles with my dad over his drinking, all of which triggered furious accusations of me “bullying” and “controlling” him. He would couch it as not wanting to be told what to do but in reality it was not wanting to have his excess pointed out.

The tragedy of this for children is that they have no control. A spouse can at least leave.

I feel grateful that my children are one step removed from the problem. I'm sorry that you weren't @Thepeopleversuswork

Is she worse this year than she normally is? She's been in your lives for at least 10 years, has she always had a drinking problem?

I wouldn't let her stay over again, perhaps organise a local B&B or hotel next Christmas. Speak to her about her behaviour around the children and explain you don't want a repeat.

Tell the children that she's unwell and can't help it and try to keep them away from her when she's drunk. I'd want to kick her out but understand that it's awkward.

I spoke to the children and did as you suggested, @PlantDoctor - told them she was unwell and said they could talk to me or ask questions whenever they wanted. Tried to keep it light and they seem fine this morning. Thanks for everyone's advice. Now just need to talk to my mother 😕

You're responsible for keeping your kids safe, and you're doing a great job. It will not be a fun conversation with your mother I'm sure, but you can set your boundary and she can either accept or not. You're doing the best you can buy your kids and that's what counts. 💐

If your kids have more questions about their GM being unwell, some of these points might come in handy:

• alcohol is a special kind of drink that makes you feel a bit different. Adults can have it in small amounts. It’s not safe for kids, because their bodies are still growing.
• alcohol is usually safe for adults to have as a treat if they don’t have too much, and it might make them a bit clumsy or silly - this might look a bit weird, but it’s not dangerous.
• having a lot of alcohol makes people feel sick and dizzy; it can make them feel angry or sad, and it can make them want to have arguments or do silly or nasty things.
• because GM isn’t well, the illness makes her head fuzzy and she can’t understand that she is drinking too much alcohol.
• its okay to feel scared or sad or angry if GM behaves badly.
• it isn’t GM’s fault that she’s not well, but that doesn’t mean that we have to stay around when she has too much alcohol.
• they shouldn’t try to talk to GM about this, because it’s private and she might feel embarrassed - instead, they should come to you with any questions or worries and you will try to help them understand what’s happening.

I hope some bits of that may come in useful at some point. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation. It’s absolutely horrible for you.

This is incredibly helpful. Thanks @MaterCogitaVera ; I've screenshot it for quick access!

One thing that may be helpful around your mums follow up conversations is to have one sentence and just keep saying that. So she says: l can't believe you are treating me like this etc..you say : l am not having Susie and Tom around someone with drink taken. Just keep saying it in a neutral tone. Don't get sucked into a big over and back as she will win by pulling out all the tactics and you will get overwhelmed.

The reason l mentioned about that it's for her good too is that may help you stay on track also when the kickback comes on strong.