But niche, but… Moral Maze: Does intent matter? My thoughts (the episode about Jamie Oliver)

[theallotmentqueen]

Very niche, but wondered if anyone else had listened to the same episode and has the same thoughts! Just listening to Moral Maze tonight. Usually I really enjoy it but this episode made me really annoyed. I’ve just finished listening to the first interviewee (Daniel Browning) and I thought the panelist who questioned him was downright rude- not just direct, rude. It seemed to me like he willfully misunderstood Browning’s points and sought to portray him as ‘woke’ and, in his own words, ‘fragile’ where this clearly wasn’t the case.

This frustrates me for a number of reasons. For a start, irregardless of whether you agree with Browning’s point, this is absolutely not the standard we should be expecting from a BBC program. Heated debate, yes, different ideas, absolutely. But strawmanning someone’s argument, willfully misconstruing them? Come on.

Secondly, I happen to agree with Browning. I am very much pro free speech and anti cancel culture, but there’s a difference between destroying someone, insulting/harassing them and being justifiably upset that Jamie Oliver misrepresented an entire group which has been misrepresented for years. Browning wasn’t suggesting that Oliver shouldn’t have written about First Nations People: he was arguing that Oliver should have done basic research. Likewise, if I was writing a book about I don’t know, gay male club culture (I’m a lesbian so very much uninvolved with men haha), I would do some basic research into the culture by reading some books and interviewing some men. That’s not ‘wokeness gone mad’, it’s basic research and respect.

Idk, that interview just really annoyed me. I found that Browning was polite and intelligent, trying his best to respond as accurately as possible to insulting questions thrown his way. In response his interviewer didn’t properly listen to his answers, interrupted him and strawmanned his arguments.

I think Browning spoke very well and made his points very clearly. I don't think the interviewer was rude, I think he was just trying to show the alternative side of the argument otherwise there's not much of a debate. I haven't listened to the rest yet.

And I completely agree with Browning too. There's definitely a difference between offending someone and writing such harmful material such as this. It's right that it has been withdrawn and it was a ridiculous waste of time and paper when someone could have stopped this well before publication. It's sad and shocking that nobody did stop it.

I haven't listened to the interview but am fed up to the back teeth of social media crusaders and cancel culture.

So what if Oliver made some mistakes in his book? Although it beats the rhetoric a few years ago that only people of that demographic could write about themselves.

I find the hectoring style of The Moral Maze utterly intolerable. I don't think that it is a healthy example of intelligent debate in the slightest.

I'm also anti cancel-culture - I don't believe in harrassing people for their political opinions/mistakes. It was more about the nature of the interview that I had an issue with, as I like debates where both sides are polite to one another and try to debate one another's argument in good faith. This is probably something you believe in as well? The issue was less with what the interviewer thought (he has a right to his feelings on the topic and this is a DEBATE - I would be mad to be annoyed that people have different opinions) and more with how he acted.

Very fair point! I reckon that I'm just a bit twitchy - after finishing the program, I felt that more of a diverse POV was reflected overall.

I’m from Australia and so possibly have a more nuanced view than the panel did here, although I’m from the U.K. originally. I also felt like they misunderstood the point - Jamie had done zero research and had written about a culture that he knows nothing about in a hugely stereotypical way which was just embarrassing.
The panelist was incredibly rude to him and also it felt like he’d done zero research as well!
In Australia people are generally extremely careful about how indigenous Australians are portrayed in an attempt to at least help with the years of wildly racist media portrayals of the past.

It's gone downhill a bit lately. I haven't listened to that episode but the one on private school VAT was really disappointing..more like a R2 Jeremy Vine lunchtime phone in with little in the way of nuance or informed comment. I hope they pick it up a bit.