To have tried and failed to make mum friends

[keepitanonymous]

I’ve been to lots of baby / toddler groups but while I chat and people are nice I’ve never really made a friend as such.

I did NCT with my first and although those friendships were initially close the cracks are definitely showing now (children start school next year) and I’m not sure we’ll stay in touch beyond perfunctory how are yous.

Is it different at school? My child will go to a very small school which I know could be cliquey but I guess I’m hoping to get IN the clique 😅

I made a good friend at an ante natal class, NHS led I doubt they exist anymore and also some friends at the school gate. Roll on 23 and 19 years and I’m still very good friends and see those women regularly. DH and I socialise, having NYE with two lots of them as a couple. I look at any meeting as an opportunity to make a mate but like dating it’s a numbers game, that’s all.

Getting advice on MN about friendships is weird because there is a much higher proportion of the socially inept, anxious or anti social. Very different categories that have similar outcomes. You just have to read on here how many people won’t answer the door. My door knocked on Christmas Day which was a surprise, it was a neighbour with a bottle of wine who just wanted to say Merry Christmas, she had a house full so couldn’t stop as has little kids.

@tarheelbaby has given very good advice.

@StartingOverInMy40s

Sorry maybe I have not expressed myself well. I’m not saying people can’t make friends at either school or nursery or NCT or whatever setting. I have done this in all these situations.

I am just saying that I have observed over the years that the people who expect it are the same people who tend to get arsy about “cliques” when other people dare to have their own friends and run into trouble.

Theres every reason to think you can make good friends at all of these points as long as you are open minded and don’t expect people to be your friend purely because your kids are in the same setting.

OP sounds sensible and switched on it was just the comment about “wanting to join the clique” which threw up a red flag.

If you deliberately set out to “join a clique” you will almost certainly piss everyone in the “clique” (or more accurately friendship group) off. Far better to just befriend the people who you like and not the people you don’t as opposed to trying to socially engineer your way to a social circle.

I think once they start primary school, that's when you start to make longer lasting friends.

I tried the groups when mine were small but those acquaintances fizzled out. I've made life long friends via primary school

I never had "mum" friends. All those I met at the school gates were just too much like hard work. I was caught in between a rock and a hard place as I wasn't meeting mums like me. I was ten years younger and only met those who wanted to bitch and gossip as those who didn't weren't doing school drop offs, they were going to work.

Fast forward many years, DS is at college now. We have a parent friend group across DS's friend group. We're a close bunch, meet and chat often. That only formed at secondary school, the least likely place, because DS is in a band with his friends and we were seeing them at gigs all the time.

When DD was younger I just made sure I got out and did things for me and made friends that way. I'm self employed and I needed the company anyway, so hobbies were/are good for me.

Where I am one my days off the school gate crew is childminders / nanny's, other childcare.

I don’t have any mum friends . I’m never at the school gate so I never get talking to anyone. I’m not even aware of any cliques because I’m not around to see them. I also didn’t get to do any baby toddler groups because of Covid :(

I do know what you mean by Frankly, the only thing I really had in common was that we had sex at roughly the same time and got pregnant but it is a fairly significant thing! I mean, you could apply that logic to anything ‘the only thing we had in common was that we went to the same school / worked at the same place / did the same course at the same uni.’

But the difference is if you were on the same course at uni then you're both interested in that subject. Or if you worked somewhere together, that was more than just a job for money, then you'd have that field of work in common. These kinds of friendships evolve around having something tangible in common that's part of your character, not the randomness of parenting or geography. It's not a significant thing that you both gave birth and have kids around the same age. Not in terms of having compatible personalities and interests. 'Mum friends' are possible for some people and some even manage to sustain it beyond school, but you're missing the point if you think the same logic applies to all situations. There's no reason why other mums would get on with you better than a random at a bus stop just because you happen to have offspring in the same age group. Much more chance of forging a meaningful friendship via work or hobbies or something that genuinely interests both parties.

Maybe just think of them as friends not "mum" friends. Lots of people want to make more friends.

Most of the primary school mum groups exist because one person goes to the effort of arranging stuff.

I've been joined into a mum friendship group by the mum of one of my daughter's friends. She's very nice and once you get to know her proudly autistic and basically doesn't have social anxiety about cliques etc or being rejected and happily talks to anyone and includes anyone who wants to be included. The friendships are mostly surface level rather than anything deep but we go out once a month or so and it's fun.

If she didn't exist I probably wouldn't have mum friends as I only do one pick up a week from the school gates and I'm quite shy and don't really start conversations with people. I would be fine with not having mum friends but it's lovely to have them as well.

So be that person - if you want a group of mum friends put yourself out there and be the person that forms the group in the first place.

But surely having children roughly the same age and choosing to live in the same geographical area are both tangible things, or areas of interest, you would have in common?

@keepitanonymous

Having moved countries twice when the kids were little, I think the key is to be open and friendly. While I wouldn't want deep friendships with everyone I meet, I can find enough common ground to pass a few hours with almost anyone. Get involved with the school if you're able, don't be a gossip or a complainer, and accept all invitations at first. Some friendships will be surface or fleeting, but you'll find some that will deepen and sustain.

I think having children of the same age and experiencing things at the same time is something that brings you together as much as doing the same course at university or working in the same role can. That doesn’t mean you’re going to be lifelong besties with everyone who has a baby at the same time as you but I also think there can be a bit of snobbery or superiority about motherhood as a friendship link on here (see first reply for reference.)

But surely having children roughly the same age and choosing to live in the same geographical area are both tangible things, or areas of interest, you would have in common?

I think you have a different idea of friendship than me. If choosing to live in a geographical area was a basis for friendship, we'd be friends with everyone in that area. But we're not because people are very different and indeed many haven't actively chosen to live in a place, it's just how their life has worked out. I'd run out of interesting chat pretty quickly if all we had in common was that this was a house we could afford near decent transport links. I guess if you just want to have chit-chat about the buses or whether your toddler is sleeping through or what homework your kids are doing or somesuch, then there's a wider pool of people you can potentially call friends, but I couldn't sustain that longer term without some deeper connection or interest. Indeed there were 'mum friends' I met in the school yard who were nice and we all made an effort to get along, but as soon as the kids went to different secondary schools, we've never seen each other since and just nod in passing on the street. They weren't 'real' friendships. They were nice people who we crossed paths with because of the geography and kids factors you mention, but they weren't like my actual friends who I share genuine interests and passions with that will sustain us for much longer.

Well, yes, but it's just as good a starting point as happening to work in the same building or living on the same residence hall or going to the same school as a child/teen (which are all places I've met some of my closest friends).

You meet a handful of people, with whom your connection is chit-chatting about buses or homework or sleep (or a hobby or your university course, etc. etc.) and you might very well discover deeper common interests with at least one or two with the potential to become 'real friendships'. Real friendships don't spring fully formed from nothing, and the people who happen to have kids the same age as yours can be just a rich a source for them as anyone else.

Seriously, how do you think people who move to new places meet people and make friends? Work, hobbies and interests, neighbours, friends of friends who happen to live in the new place and are happy to welcome you, school gates, volunteering. All can be sources and, honestly, you can turn out to have more in common than with some of your oldest friends when your lives diverge.

Baby groups- well the only thing you have in common is a baby. You have no shared history for about the 30-40 years before that so why think you would suddenly make friends there?

School - I would think the same unless your kids have a close group of friends and you become 'friendly' with the parents. Other than that everyone comes with their own friends and groups already.

We are lucky in that our school mum group is Everyone. So everyone joins in as they get there. There are some smaller groups including myself, but then our kids are friends.

the people who happen to have kids the same age as yours can be just a rich a source for them as anyone else.
Seriously, how do you think people who move to new places meet people and make friends? Work, hobbies and interests, neighbours, friends of friends who happen to live in the new place and are happy to welcome you, school gates, volunteering. All can be sources and, honestly, you can turn out to have more in common than with some of your oldest friends when your lives diverge.

Um, I've said how I think they make friends and it's equally applicable to people who move to new places or have always lived there. I've in no way claimed that it's anything to do with being old friends and nor has that been my experience. Think you're arguing with someone else or some position you've imagined.

Not everyone is lucky enough to have friends from school days, university etc.

But she's listed work and hobbies too. You don't have to be lucky to have a hobby. If you literally do not have any interests to pursue in life and are only looking to live through your children, then it's no wonder friendships are limited.

Look on Facebook. I suggested a mum meet up on a local group (not a mum group) and got talking to someone with similar interests. I think it helps to like similar things, not just have kids the same age.