to be second guessing re training as a teacher … help!

[Starcarbar]

I worked as a solicitor for around 9 years. It 34 and we want to ttc in next few years. I’ve always wanted to go into something other than law and my plan was to do teacher training from next year ahead of ttc. I keep having doubts. I don’t know if it’s the media but I often hear about how the workload spirals etc. I typically work 8-6 or 7 in law and can usually avoid working a weekend. Does anyone know if it would be worse than that in teaching? I love the idea of making a difference and working with kids and in certain I want to leave the legal profession. Am I making a mistake? I feel like it’s now or never to jump ship!

I taught for 10 years and I left because it was so boring by the end.
if you’re a half decent teacher you’ll get all the exam classes
imagine teaching the same curriculum to five classes a day five times a week. Slight exaggeration but it’s so dull. I now have a job where every day is different. I manage my own time, and I get to meet interesting people and travel the world.
Teaching would never allow this.

you’re also in your classroom so it can be isolating and you don’t do much socialising with colleagues.

It’s also not a flexible job so you might have a massive shock coming from a different industry.

you can’t just go to the dentist or get your MOT sorted. Sounds like a small thing but it’s actually really frustrating.

Also the 6 week holiday is painful by the end unless your partner or friends are teachers.
plus you’ll be paying £££ for any holidays.

and with the holidays you’re working for a part of it and technically not being paid.

For context I was a good teacher and got several outstandings from OFSTED I don’t know what the moaning is about all the hours of prep. If you’re a good teacher you shouldn’t have to put in every hour of the day to be a teacher.

i think you have to have a certain personality for the kids to behave and respect you. Dont listen to anyone that says don’t smile before Christmas! Just be kind and compassionate and set boundaries. The kids will respect you.

I’ve loved teaching and found it fitted well with raising my (now grown up) children. It removes the nightmare of holiday childcare. But I work in a well-resourced and successful independent school, which makes a huge difference to the quality of my working life. I used to live with a lawyer in my twenties and he did much longer hours than me.

Wow @Blakethedrake I have never been bored - kids are unpredictable!

Regardless of the careers in question, starting out in anything when you have young kids is hard. The early part of your career is all about learning things from scratch and establishing your reputation.

Stick with law for now. You know what you're doing. You can negotiate a bit of flex based on your experience. You won't be dealing with two big life changes at once.

Change career at a later stage.

The kids weren’t predictable by j was given all the exam classes which was predictable.
Theres only so many times you can teach the same thing and remain enthusiastic

I teach secondary and am on the fence. There are definitely benefits - lots of jobs, pay is okay, pension plan is good, I get school holidays off with my own kids. The workload IS really tough, I’m in school 7:30-4 most days and work through lunch and most of Sunday. Occasionally evenings as well, depending on the time of the year. I felt unwell when I worked full time as that was unsustainable, but am 0.6 now and find it okay. I nearly left teaching a few years ago in an unsupportive school, but now work somewhere that I like my department and SLT and am reasonably content and find it manageable. I find behaviour management increasingly challenging but think that’s par for the course in most schools at the moment depressingly.

I do wish I was able to book time off for my kids school plays and things - usually I can get cover for one thing off a year due to my headteacher being a decent human. One year I had to choose between my children’s school productions as they both fell on my work days and that was just awful. I couldn’t go to their music concerts this year because I had requested cover to attend my son’s nativity. I’ve never yet been to a sports day for either of them. I find that aspect of it really awful as a Mum. I end up feeling super crap and have to remind myself that the holidays with my kids are more important.

Have you actually spent time in a school, OP? Watched a teacher and thought about how they’ve got to the place they’re at and considered what will be next? I really recommend a couple of days each in good and no so good schools, chat to teachers about their workload, their planning processes and school expectation re: marking and assessment. It’s the only way you’ll get an idea of what’s what and whether it’s worth a shot. I started teaching at 40, a, now mid-50s and enjoy it but it took some years to get to a place where I can open my resources and just go.

I honestly wouldn’t do it, particularly if you’re thinking of starting a family soon. I’ve been teaching for over a decade (now only 3 days after having a baby) and although I enjoy parts, it leaves me shattered and anxious. Even working 3 days I’m easily doing 33hrs + per week and never feel like I can switch off. Holidays are a benefit but the lack of flexible working is a nightmare and I have no idea how I’m going to get to work on time when DD starts school. The system is so broken, and it’s not getting better any time soon.

For the money, time, mental health impact… it’s just not worth it.

my plan was to do teacher training from next year ahead of ttc.

Why? Why do you want to leave law and why do you want to do teaching?

I honestly wouldn’t recommend teaching to my worst enemy at the moment! You’ll work similar hours for much less money, be constantly scrutinised and villified in the press and social media for being a lazy workshy Marxist! When you get to the top of the pay scale, unlike most other careers my friends seem to have where things get ‘easier’ with more flexibility and work-life balance, you develop a target on your head because SLT could buy two new teachers for the price of you so you need to watch your back as you’ll be put on capability.

I recommend that you join the ‘Life after teaching: exit the classroom and thrive’ Facebook and spend a few hours reading the posts.

Think it depends on what you teach. I've taught a couple of texts well into double figures now and I'm still finding new things to talk about.

There are some poems I'd happily never teach again, mind.

I agree with this. There are some great schools out there - and not just in the independent sector.

My daughter is a teacher in a state secondary. It's her first teaching job and she's now in her third year at the school. She absolutely loves it and, from what I hear, the school is really well managed and has a caring and supportive senior leadership team.

I think it’s a little unkind to say that a lot of people who have left teaching did so because they ’couldn’t manage the workload’, even with the caveat of ’for whatever reason’. I can only speak for myself, but I know anecdotally there are many many more with similar experiences - I could manage the workload, I got everything done, I was an excellent teacher, HOD, and loved working with the kids, truly genuinely cared about them. But none of that changed the fact that ’managing’ the workload is in reality often a case of being asked to live in a manner that is entirely detrimental to physical and mental health, and to wellbeing and family / social life. Being able to manage is not the same as being well, or being well treated. Many of us who ’managed’ still chose to leave, because the job was literally making us iller and iller by every single day. This is a systemic issue borne of the fetishisation of quantitative assessment of every actor in the school system, from individual children upwards. It is not a normal way to live, and it is not acceptable from the point of view of workers’ rights. It is genuinely heartwarming and hopeful to hear of a slight, slow, patchy trend towards improvement, I am so delighted to hear that. But the issue needs addressing through government investment, and an entirely overhauled understanding of what is important in education. I think that in many cases, teachers can manage their workloads, but have realised that they shouldn’t have to do so, because the workloads are unreasonable and incompatible with health and the ability to thrive. (And to clarify, I don’t only mean the planning and marking workloads, I mean the mental load also).

Law doesn’t have to be time recording in 6 minutes units - lots of in house or professional support roles. My team are mainly wfh very flexible.

Don't do it. It saps every bit of your energy, life, and self worth.

I wouldn't recommend it tbh. I've been a teacher for 30 years. It's all I ever wanted to do, since I was 12. The job has changed beyond all recognition since I started.
You will to some extent get varying views on the workload (depending on primary or secondary, on individual school, and on subject). However, essentially imo it's a choice between doing a barely manageable workload but never feeling like you're doing your job properly vs doing a completely unmanageable workload but feeling like you're almost doing your job properly. This term almost broke me, and I'm very experienced. The thought of being a full-time newly-qualified teacher now, with a baby or small dc genuinely doesn't bear thinking about tbh.

I honestly think I could just about deal with the hours I do, if by doing those hours I felt like I was on top of everything. I literally never do feel that. Never. There is always stuff I'm supposed to be doing but don't have time to do, so I have a constant feeling of guilt and slight inadequacy. Having spoken to colleagues, I think this is basically the norm, except for part-timers (who end up working way, way more hours than they are paid for.

I think it’s a little unkind to say that a lot of people who have left teaching did so because they ’couldn’t manage the workload’

This.

If lots and lots of teachers are leaving because the workload is too high, it’s not the people that’s the problem, it’s the workload.

I’ve done it for a really long time. More than 30 years, classroom teaching. I loved it for a long time too but it is hard. A lot depends on your school but unless you live in London, you don’t always have a wide choice.
I’ve tried to sum it up realistically and without hyperbole.
Workload is very high and without frequent holidays you would definitely burn out. It’s not the hours per se, it’s the intensity. I don’t stop at all, all day. Constant talking, noise and being alert is draining.
Holidays are very nice, even if you do some work during them.
Inflexibility can be hard and gets more irritating when your own children are older to be honest and friends want a few days away etc. My non teacher partner had to be flexible when ours were little.
Managing behaviour and trying to meet everyone’s needs can feel impossible.
It can feel satisfying sometimes but pressure for exam results is hard and you don’t feel you have control over them.
The day passes quickly without clock watching.

It’s harder in your first few years. I worked 7:30-5:30 at school and then more at home each day, and then usually around 8 hours (no joke) on a Sunday in my first and second years.

Now I’m in my fifth year and I usually work 7:45-5:30 but I genuinely leave as soon as I can and if I don’t have marking I will be out the door around 4:30. Sometimes I’m there until 6 or 6:30 but it varies. I don’t work in the evenings. I never work weekends. I obviously have to do work in the holidays like this time around I have a term’s worth of English planning, some planning for a project I’m running etc. It’s very busy around reports and I run the summer play so that’s always mad too and so in spring my workload ups a bit.

I don’t have kids and I work in a school with generally good behaviour, strong SLT and great resources. I honestly think unless you have a difficult class teaching is actually not crazy hard. I teach Year 6 and SATs pressure is always present (esp. in my high achieving school) but honestly, if you’re willing to graft through the first few years and get a good school, it evens out. I teach because I find it fun. I’m not sure I’d recommend it to anyone who doesn’t really love it, though, and the PGCE is tough.

Oh yes actually to be fair the intensity of the day is a big thing. Noooo freedom whatsoever to have a wee, make a tea, take a quick break, have a chat, start slow in the morning etc. My lovely Year 6s are beautifully behaved so it’s not like it’s manic here, but the millions of questions and totally inflexible timetable are annoying!

If it’s something you’ve always wanted to do, then I’d say give it a go. It’s not a nice feeling to regret not doing something you’ve always dreamt of. And you have another career you can return to if it doesn’t work out. If you’re just thinking of trying teaching as an alternative career, then it’s probably not a good idea.

After 20 years, I don’t work at home at all now, but am in school mainly 8am to 5 or 6pm, with no breaks. I can cope with that and feel lucky I get the holidays. I’ve also been lucky that when my kids were young, I was doing supply or not working (SEN so wasn’t able to), so I never missed any of their events. When I was back at work, my schools were happy for me to swap PPA to attend sports days.

However, I have never felt I’m making a difference really. Behaviour is becoming increasingly horrendous (primary). Micromanagement and more and more pointless admin tasks all add to me wanting to leave. I’m in a SEND school, so don’t have the marking, but manny many other things I have to deal with.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Merry Christmas!

It depends on the school. I manage to work from 730 in classroom until 5 (unless I have a meeting then 630) and do only a few hours at the weekend, except with there is a big marking load. I love it but have worked long hours before. I just work smart now. But it does take over your life - I dream of lessons and canf switch off sometimes cos of students' problems. But I feel I'm making a difference, my kids are now older and I love the summer holiday. Pay is shit though for what you do. But if it's your vocation it is worth it

I have been a teacher for 35 years on and off. Some of it I've loved and some.of it I've hated. In particular, my last job with the endless micromanagement of my practice, rules about what colour pens to use, hours of invented quandaries

What misconceptions might less able children have about birthdays? What misconceptions might more able children have? What misconceptions might Iraqi children have about birthdays? Write all 3 misconceptions down. Plan your answers.

Do this for every lesson you teach. Produce evidence that you have spent time thinking of questions that might be asked but actually never are. Have people who weren't even born when you qualified telling you that the most recent bollocks is the only way to do something and watch as the kids in their class are neglected because they don't have the breadth of experience or the humility to ask for advice.

Go the extra mile.
We do sweat the small stuff
Every.minute counts.
No excuses

Do not decide that training as a teacher is a great thing to do just before you ttc. The training and ECT years are a complete killer. You do not want to miss the time when your children need you most.

I have a lovely portfolio career now but I don't work in a school and I never will again.

And all the work smart, be organised in the world is pointless when your SLT specifically requires you to work in a specific way with a specific colour of pen and a specific font and a specific amount of a specific homework

Saying people leave because they 'can't manage' the workload implies that they should want to manage the workload and they're a failure if they can't.

People leave because they realise there are far better options out there with similar or better salaries that allow for a much better work life balance.

I've just left teaching last week after 10 years, and am starting a new role in Jan. My experience in the new role is very limited and over ten years old, but I'll still earn 70% of what I was earning at the top of the teaching pay scale and a management allowance. Within 2 years, I'll probably be earning more.

With this in mind, why on earth would I let myself be exploited by staying in teaching.