AIBU to want to end the fakery around my sibling's partner?

[Greywarden]

I have no idea what to do in this situation so would love some other people's perspectives.

Apologies for the gender-non-specificity here but don't want to be too outing.

One of my siblings has a partner who I will call 'Alex'. They have been together for a few years and live together.

None of us like Alex very much. By 'us' I mean my other siblings and our dad. We thought Alex seemed pretty awesome at first but over time have come to all agree that they are really self-absorbed, controlling and do not seem to make our sibling very happy. This view is based largely on what we've seen in terms of their interactions but is also based on what sibling tells us directly themselves.
Sibling frequently complains about how awful Alex is being; how Alex wants to get married but they couldn't possibly make that commitment to them given their shortcomings; how Alex's demands are unreasonable and making their own life hell.

Here's the tricky part: despite all of this complaining, sibling also says they love Alex and don't want to break up with them now (although might have to do so in the future). Sibling goes from bitter complaining to expecting us all to play happy families - lots of time together over Christmas; treating Alex as part of the family; frequent invites to theirs and expectation of reciprocity. This means that we all find ourselves having to pretend we don't know things we know and act as though we like and respect Alex when we don't.

To make it harder still, Alex is pretty isolated - no family in this country; few friends - and has told me and one of my other siblings that we are basically the only people they trust and like spending time with. This makes social situations with them all the more excruciating from my perspective, because as much as I'm not Alex's fan, they are still a human being with some good qualities and it feels awful and cruel that I'm being two-faced with them all the time. Alex has even picked up on dislike from other family members and tried to talk to me about this issue and how to solve it. I'm not a good actor / liar and don't believe it's right to treat someone in this way. Worst of all is knowing that Alex wants to get married and that my own sibling has no intention of marrying them but having to listen to Alex talking about their hopes for the future. I'm basically colluding in Alex being strung along.

I don't know what to do. If I distance myself from Alex I will be distancing myself from sibling too, isolating them and pushing them closer to Alex when they present as needing my support. If I'm honest with Alex about my worries about their relationship with my sibling or about not wanting to be matey, I will definitely cause offence and my sibling will be angry and upset with me. If I keep faking it around Alex I am being cruel to them and untrue to myself and a pretty despicable human being.

Help!

Just to add to avoid drip-feeding: this isn't a situation where I think my sibling is being abused by Alex or fear for their safety... or at least I don't think so. With controlling-type behaviour it can be hard to tell.

YABU - keep your mouth shut and keep being friendly towards Alex. Maybe it's not ideal but it's the best choice.

YANBU - you should do something else here - distance yourself from Alex / find a way to be honest with them / insert better idea here.

Sounds like your sibling needs to keep his private life to himself and stop involving his family in his relationship.

Could you say to your siblings something like 'i love you and care about your happiness, but I can't listen to you complain about Alex if you want me to keep spending time with them. Can you find someone else to talk about your relationship with e.g other siblings or a friend, and keep me out of it?'

And do the same with Alex.

And stick to it, so if either of them try and draw you into a discussion say 'you know I can't listen to this' then change the subject

I do agree with you - my sibling hasn't acted as well as I'd like (they're otherwise pretty awesome so this does upset me) and has put the rest of us in a tough position. I don't think that makes it easier for me to decide what to do though given that I now know what I know.

Difficult to know if your sibling is really stringing Alex along from what you’ve written. The sibling says all these bad things to you, but their actions tell a different story. Where does the truth lie? Maybe they actually have no intention of breaking up with Alex, and they’re going to end up getting married. I’d stay friendly and try to stay out of it.

@ZippyPeer I really love the way you've put this - direct but respectful. What I fear is that my sibling will react to this by withdrawing from me and complaining about not being able to be honest with me anymore. But I can't see any other way to change the situation! Thanks for the idea.

This, in a nutshell.

It sounds like your sibling is just keeping Alex in the sidelines, just in case they get a better offer. You should tell your sibling to shit or get off the pot. If they are happy, stop airing their dirty laundry with you, your other siblings and your dad. If they’re unhappy, end it.

If you can’t bring it up with your sibling without them reacting to this by withdrawing from me and complaining about not being able to be honest with me anymore then they aren’t as awesome as you think they are.

As ever, first post has nailed it.

Sibling needs to be told, ideally by all of you, that you are absolutely there for them if they wish to split up from Alex.

However as they don't currently they need to keep their relationship woes to themselves and sort it out directly with Alex.

My mum gave me this advice when I first tried moaning to her about DH. I thought she was incredibly mean at first but she was spot on - either he was abusive and I should dump him (he wasn't) or I had to sort it out with him. I did sort it out with him and it made our marriage happier, and DM was free to enjoy her relationship with her 'favourite son-in-law.'

@Inmydreams88 and @KerryBlues , I think you are right. I suppose it's fair to say that even if my sibling didn't tell me anything, I'd still be in a weird position over this though. A lot of the problems are there to see - the way Alex talks to my sibling in front of me and the really ludicrous demands they make.

Why would he tell you he doesn't want to marry Alex? Then expect you to treat her like one of the family / a future SIL?

I'd be more concerned about the game playing, toxic sibling than Alex tbh.

My impression is that my sibling loves Alex but finds aspects of their personality really stressful and difficult to deal with, so is therefore really conflicted and upset about it all and vents in an attempt to cope. As a family we have had some pretty horrendous bereavements in the last few years and have all bonded closely in response - perhaps too closely as we have lost clear boundaries along the way.

I am open to the possibility that I've been making too many excuses for my sibling however. I don't think this is deliberate game-playing but people can fall into these patterns without releasing, I think.

What you have to realise is that sibling and Alex may never split up.
Or they may be together for the next decade, whether or not they get married.

Don't say anything to Alex, don't risk bad feelings and embarrassment that could last a decade or more and make every family event a nightmare.

Don't think of it as being "fake" - it is just normal family relationships. Every family has people who don't really get on or like each other, but are civil and friendly as the occasion requires.

My SIL really isn't my cup of tea, doesn't follow current affairs because it's too depressing, but had an opinion on everything, Christmas questions have included, don't you think ukip have a point though and why is there always a butch lesbian in a couple....... She's very into cosmetic procedures, lashes, nails, hair etc, has a very cliquey group of friends she's known from school who still all behave like they're in the playground, always falling out, she said this about this one etc, that she goes into in minute detail. She also has champagne tastes and a lemonade budget and I know regularly racks up credit card debt on things like dinners out, weekends in 'marbs', essential Botox, they then have a row, my brother ends up paying it off again, she says she's going to go back to work because the children are at school now but doesn't etc etc etc. I smile, I'm polite, I act like I'm vaguely interested, and DH and I sigh with relief when she's gone. I'm pretty sure dB has no interest in DHs dungeons and dragons and niche film tastes either, but family tolerate partners of family (to a degree).
Next time just say, I'm sorry but I find it hard to listen to this and then spend time with alex, it makes me feel like I'm being false. Or just say yes I know I know, this is what they're like you either accept that or leave.

Clear is kind. Unclear is unkind. Difficult conversations are not easy, but avoiding them isn’t fair on anyone in this situation. You need to be straight with your sibling, it’s not easy but continuing to keep quiet is unkind to everyone involved

This 100%
Burns so many bridges in families!

Just be a bit distanced about it all, don't get involved yourself and if either one bends your ear, just say non-committal things like 'hmm' or 'oh dear' and if they ask your opinion just state whatever they just told you like 'so what you are saying is you argue a lot'.

You don't need to be that invested, take a step back, I agree the boundaries have gone wrong somewhere. Nothing you say or do will make any difference to anything, it's likely your sibling will continue with them, so just distance yourself a little and let them get on with it. You don't need to save Alex and you don't need to save your sibling, they are adults and will sort it out themselves.

Your sibling sounds pretty toxic. I would distance myself.

Glad it's not just me that thinks OPs (brother) sounds like a dick. Unhappy with his (girlfriend) enough to moan to all his family but not unhappy enough to actually end the relationship despite the fact he clearly states he's no intention of committing. Meanwhile the poor deluded cow is dreaming of the future and wondering why no proposal but still plodding on naming the future children unaware that they're a pain in the arse and are likely only still in a relationship because a better option hasn't yet presented itself.

I also presumed Alex was a woman who wants to get married and have babies. If the sibling doesn't want to do that, he owes her her fertile years to let her go off and find someone else. If it's not a time-dependent situation, fair enough, but if it is, then whatever Alex is, he's stringing her along with false promises and denigrating her to the family and that's deeply unpleasant. I would not expect my life partner to run me down to their family.

I've been assuming that Alex is a man. And I would find it concerning if my sister had a controlling partner. I would definitely be listening to their concerns and advising them to leave.

@IknowIputitsomewhere great username. I think it does make a difference if it's a man or a woman, in relation to life-stage, babies and controlling behaviour- not that it is ideal from anyone, but it's not clear what 'controlling' means here, that the sibling is saying they are being controlled, that you see controlling language, or whether it's really quite abusive. Many families believe their men are controlled by the woman/SIL in my experience, when actually the man is quite happy not to visit their families too much or let them have their own way. Often women are deemed to be controlling for things I find quite ordinary such as deciding what they want to do with their holidays or suggesting they go home at a certain time. Controlling behaviour in a man can run the gamut from just a bit pernickety all the way up to full-on abuse. I'd be very concerned about a sister with a controlling partner.

Either way, you can't make them leave the person. It is their choice to stay. I'd say my piece, and then distance myself unless I was worried about their safety.