To object to boxing for PE?

[drspouse]

Context: DS has ADHD, some aggressive behaviour, and is in a specialist SEMH school.
They go off site once a week for a physical activity (billed as Outdoor Ed, but so far we've had swimming, and it's now being switched to boxing at a local gym).
He's just about to turn 13 and has done no martial arts before. I would be happy with him doing another martial art but boxing carries risks I'm not happy with, plus I'm opposed to hitting people as a sport.

The problem is that if he doesn't go to the session (whether it's because he's ill, because he's misbehaved at school, or because we withdraw him) he won't be offered an alternative out of school. He'll just be left at school to do colouring.

I'm not clear if they get another PE session during the week, I don't think we technically have the right to withdraw him from lessons except sex ed and religious worship but I don't think the school would force him to go (they couldn't, even if they wanted to, frankly!).

I know boxing has helped many young men get out of the gutter, taken them away from a life of crime, blah blah, but I don't think hitting people should be a sport, especially for a child who thinks it's fun to hit people, who thinks any accidental injury is the other person's fault and he has the right to retaliate, etc. Telling him he doesn't, that there are rules in sport etc. etc. is not going to make a blind bit of difference IMO.

I assume they'd just be punching punch bags and not doing even mini fights, but there are also the risks if another child decides it's fun to practice on DS, especially as he has epilepsy and has recently had a minor skull fracture.

All of the benefits that people are talking about here are not exclusive to boxing. There's plenty of evidence that exercise helps children with ADHD and we make sure he gets exercise, and their other exercise activities are great (swimming, climbing, football at break). He has not been offered this midweek afternoon out doing sport before last term when they did swimming - he's only been offered a "reward Friday" outing which he's never earned (basically, he's so anxious about going out that it's like saying "if you're good all week you can play in a bag of spiders" so obviously he had no incentive). But I take on board that they may have done this successfully with other classes.

I object to the idea of hitting anything as sport, and I'm not keen for anyone in our house to think it's OK to hit inanimate objects or people.

There's a real double think here - why is it OK for to hit a boxing pad but not OK for an adult to hit the wall in their house?

We've replied and said we aren't happy with boxing in general, and that given his recent head injury we think it's unwise. I hadn't thought about holding pads for other children, but that doesn't sound massively safe for him either especially if he's not self-controlled enough to be ready for another child (who is themselves impulsive). I didn't ask about RA as I'm sure they have done one but they may not have considered his CHI.

He does other sport as I say, and we're happy for him to do different activities with school. Just not this one.

Hocjey, rugby, football etc aren’t exactly safe, especially if he’s not very coordinated and has had a head injury. The balls in cricket and hockey are solid, plus you have bats/hockey sticks swinging about - it’s not a very controlled environment and it’s a lot harder for the staff to keep an eye on everyone. Other martial arts involve kicks or throws, they aren’t necessarily any safer than boxing drills where there’s no contact. I’m not a fan of box but non-contact work is a safe way to burn off energy and frustration, build fitness and instill self-discipline.

He'd probably quite like punching a punch bag but we aren't happy with him doing that either.

I've had psychologists/OTs suggest my ND DC try using a punchbag (or punching a cushion) as a way of relieving pent up anger (before it escalates into violent meltdowns) a few times - I don't think it's a particularly controversial thing for a child struggling with emotional regulation to try, IME.

OK then, athletics, riding, sailing, cycling... they don't do those either.

Casual football at break, and the dodgeball club he goes to, are both more or less team sports. He's happy with those and it's helped his teamwork. I didn't say he struggles to engage with team sports. I said he struggles to engage in general and the main common factor is that it's new. So individual circuits/pad work would be completely new to him and he would have a few weeks to get used to it (or more likely, hide in the corner at the boxing gym, or EVEN more likely, kick someone in school in the morning so he didn't have to go).

I think you’re right OP. There’s a huge list of physical activity they could do - circuits, aerobics, dance (it’s not just for girls). I wouldn’t choose boxing for a school sport in the same way I wouldn’t choose rugby - why take the risk of injury?

I think there is a huge difference between an adult punching a wall and anyone punching a pad. One is an angry loss of self control, the other is a planned release of aggression.

What I mean is they try to organise a different, interesting activity for the kids and you want to moan that punching a bag is unacceptable. Presumably some PITA parent would also object to rugby because its too physical, football because they don't want their child kicking things, hockey because what if they smash each others teeth in with the hockey sticks etc.etc. They can't win.

Most of the studies of catharsis theory (which is what this is called) show that providing an "outlet" increases, rather than decreases, aggression.
Calming your nervous system by e.g. breathing deeply, taking a time out, reducing sensory input (ear defenders!), non-contact exercise, seem much more effective.

I'm extremely negative about boxing in general, our traumatic brain injury doctors get trolled and harassed relentlessly when they speak up about the dangers.
Seems a terrible idea for children with probably poor cognitive reserve anyway to then be directed towards a sport which will cause further neuronal damage.
That said, if it's training and bags rather than sparring etc the likelihood of injury is low, but I just don't like to see the 'sport' promoted.

I'm pretty sure we are the only parents who ever communicate anything like this to the school, and we are certainly the only ones who ask what the planned off site activity is. Until now, we've only heard what it was when we were told he was offered it and refused it (or, as I say, kicked someone so he didn't have to go) or if they needed special kit (swimming).

If I sound like a total snob, that's partly because I am, partly because I'm highly aware of the needs of some of the parents at the school (e.g. with multiple children with ADHD and undiagnosed ADHD themselves), and partly because I also know there are quite a few LAC at the school.

Boxing can be amazing for ADHD boys. Give it a chance OP, although I think outdoor ed would have been the better option. At that age it should be done safely, and in a controlled manner, but it can do all sorts for the attention deficit given that it requires high activity, attention to detail and boosts endorphins. Great start to a school day.

I think you need to find out more. I do get why you'd be very dubious about him learning to punch (anything) faster, harder, more accurately and with better technique. Those who disagree should walk a few miles in your shoes trying to keep yourselves and your younger DC safe in your own home. OTOH I can see an argument for a punchbag as part of his regulation toolkit.

I'm not sure cricket, rugby or hockey would be any safer for a child who's recently had a skull fracture. Cricket had really clamped down on concussion protocol after some serious injuries and at least one fatality. You can get a nasty head injury even with a helmet and neck protector.

Most of the studies of catharsis theory (which is what this is called) show that providing an "outlet" increases, rather than decreases, aggression.
Calming your nervous system by e.g. breathing deeply, taking a time out, reducing sensory input (ear defenders!), non-contact exercise, seem much more effective.

Then I would discuss this with the SENCo and ask them to liaise with the PE teacher, as it's unreasonable to expect the average PE teacher to be well-versed on the latest research on catharsis theory.

@Gleeanda I actually wasn't aware of that about cricket - thanks - it's not something he's ever shown any interest in and the boys at school prefer football as their casual sport even in summer (but as I say I must check about doing headers).

@LonginesPrime nobody, to be fair, has told us it will be good for aggression, it's just "what they are offering" as outdoor ed (just to avoid confusion, this is what they call this slot, though it isn't outdoor), they do emphasise deep breathing, taking a break etc. and he's getting better at this.

There's a real double think here - why is it OK for to hit a boxing pad but not OK for an adult to hit the wall in their house?

seriously? What a stupid comment. You think they are the same?
Why is it ok to tackle your opponent on a football or better rugby field, but not your teacher in the street?

football at break is ok? You are having a laugh. Football gets so bad in my kids school, it's banned most of the year because they can't behave and the number of injuries has gone too far 😂And it's the same everywhere -that's what happen when kids play without a solid ref.

I know that one solution can't fit all, which makes it always tricky for the school, but the moral view on boxing that you know nothing about is offensive and not very well thought. I am the first one to admit that someone like me, white collar city-worker girly female can't be compared with a bare-knuckle street "fighter", but is the school likely to go for anything else than mainstream boxing?

I am sure rugby and hockey would NOT be safer at all, they would be so much worst! Any team sport has to be avoided after skull fracture or concussion, for obvious reason.

the moral view on boxing that you know nothing about is offensive and not very well thought.
I actually live in a part of the country where boxing is VERY big, especially among some communities, and some of my DCs' school mates (especially DD who is younger) do boxing. Her school offer a boxing club and there's a (different) boxing gym within 100m of my house.

@Tarraleah I'm guessing we are lucky then with the break time football. They only have 5 to a class and it's well supervised. I've asked about the policy on headers, which I had not even thought of till this thread, he wouldn't think to do them but he would definitely copy!

I work in an AP school (SEMH needs). We do boxing - they use bags and pads. We have a gym with lots of equipment and do one day a week outdoor learning (varies but includes mountain biking, skiing, swimming, trampolining, visits to zoos or the beach - all sorts and yes, sometimes inside...). Football or basketball during breaks, and we have football matches against another AP school, but not other traditional sports. We just don't have the space. If you expressed your concerns to us, we'd be happy to invite you in to discuss our curriculum and why it is the way it is.

@drspouse I didn't mean just blackball cricket too, it's more that any sport will have injuries. Hockey balls cause broken noses and concussion, netball breaks fingers. It's shades of grey, not black and white. Generally the benefits outweigh the negatives in health terms for most people, most of the time.

I do think team sports are quite challenging to do at a special school though. At DS's there is a lot of PDA and the level of compliance it would demand just wouldn't be worth it.

I can understand your concerns OP. I don't like the idea of boxing either and certainly would not have wanted any of my children hitting another person or being hit by someone. However, I think you probably need to enquire more closely about what they will actually be doing before writing it off. Sports that are more obviously dangerous often have very good safety procedures. I'm sure tge boxing coaches are well aware of the risks of their sport, but I think I would be more interested in what experience they have on working with young people with additional needs as that is perhaps more important.
All sports have risks. Some of your ideas about sports that are less dangerous are a bit misplaced. I'm a cycling coach and head injury is my biggest worry for the youngsters I coach. British Cycling, like many other sports has recently brought in a new concussion protocol and guidance for coaches and event organisers as awareness of the short and long term effects of head injury increases. Ditto hockey. There's been a big increase in the use of protective clothing and equipment in recent years but even so I have seen some nasty injuries on the hockey pitch. Google Sam Ward if you want to see the possible outcome of impact from a hockey ball. And I have a feeling that horse riding is often considered the most risky sport of all. Even things like squash or table tennis can cause nasty injuries. Anything with a fast moving projectile, other humans or animals in close proximity can cause harm, so that's most sports. Of course there are benefits as well or nobody would play anything, and it has to be a balance. Whilst some sports are more inherently risky than others, I think the most important thing is often the skill, attitude and experience of the people running the activity rather than what it actually is, and I'd be focusing my questions on that if I were you.

@MrsAvocet I was using those examples as less likely to involve "having to do things as a team" not as less likely to involve injury. DD goes to a cycling club and I'm a leisure cyclist, so is DS, so I'm fairly up on injury in that area. I can understand that the school might find team games hard to organise (not least because they have very small class sizes) but they offer extremely little that would be common in mainstream schools - I've seen some really creative PE work on my recent look round several mainstream secondaries for DD including stuff that DS would love but they do none of it, and as I say have other facilities they just don't use.

Reading a recent thread on dissection, and seeing the demos at the school open days, for example, has made me realise I need to get a heart and some chicken wings and a Twinkl worksheet and do that with DS at home as he'll never get the chance to do it in school.

I think I'd be pulling him out of the boxing due to his recent head injury rather than anything else.

I agree with you op , I don't think teaching an aggressive nd 13 year old tye correct way to punch is a good idea at all. Sounds like a disaster in the making

I do as well. Compulsory boxing. Absolutely not on.

School replied quickly and have been understanding about our worries though they say it's mainly skipping/circuits (slim chance DS would engage). They did see how boxing might not be parental preference on principle and didn't come heavy handed (which DD school totally would) about "our time, our rules".

I have been pretty surprised by both DS school offering this and the club at DD school, though I did know how popular it is locally! Luckily AFAIK it's not a PE offering for DD.