Should my brother leave his marriage for good?

[Cocolove287]

I know it sounds cliche, but my brother is one of the 'good ones'. He has a heart of gold, and would do absolutely anything for those he cares about. He has a good career, yet is also a very hands on Dad with his DD who is 4. He pays all the bills (his choice) and is a very tidy & clean person in the home. He works shifts, so the weeks where he is home in the evenings, he does all the house work, cooking, cleaning, evening school runs, food shopping etc. The weeks he isn't around in the evenings he does the morning school runs, prepares dinner where he can, cleaning, food shopping etc. You get the gist.

He's been with my SIL for 11 years nearly. Married 8. The both lost a large amount of weight around 2 years ago, I'm talking nearly 8-9+ stone each and are both looking and feeling better than ever. This is where the problem lied. SIL had this new found confidence (great) but it meant her priorities seem to vastly change, with her being no.1. When OH was home of an evening, she would be at the gym, seeing friends at a bar, going to a class. Basically, she would've rather been anywhere but home in my OH's eyes.

SIL also has very different home expectations, in that she is a lot more messy, no real routine, and tbh, is actually quite lazy regarding household chores. I think it got to the point where she just knows OH will do it. My brother asked SIL on 2 or 3 occasions if she wanted this life anymore/wanted to be married as he felt they had been disconnected for a long time and was willing to accept that they'd changed and wanted different things in life now. SIL was adamant she was happy and loved him, would do better etc. Things changed for a few months, then went back to normal, with SIL prioritising going out with friends. It got to the point where she would make plans every weekend seeing friends if she knew OH wasn't working to look after DD. He said to me in his words 'I feel like I'm just a doormat existing in life and not really living'. He said she became more secretive with her phone as well, changed her pass code, and using it non-stop, posted selfies/body shots regularly as she had developed a large 'weight loss' following on social media.

Role on 5 months later, brother had reached a real low point in life, and was quite clearly depressed. He told me he was going to have a real heart to heart with SIL, and tell her how unhappy he was. The chat happened, SIL wasn't supportive and said 'you need to man up'. With that, my brother packed a bag and left for his parents. Said he needed to be away from her to see how he really felt and to clear his head. Obviously they remained in contact as he still did the school runs for DD, and had her every weekend to start with whilst they found a routine that worked for them. SIL didn't try to convince him to stay. He had one 'pleading' type message to go home but other than that, seemed to be coping well.

This was a month ago. My brother is like a new man, honestly. The change in him is astonishing. It's like I could physically see the stress drain away from him. I saw him only a week ago and we had an in-depth conversation and he said he was going to have the serious talk with SIL and say he wanted a divorce. He was so clear that's what he wanted. I know this wasn't a decision he took lightly either, we come from parents who have been happily married for 30+ years. It broke his heart to think about not being with DD everyday but he said for his own sanity and to be able to be there for DD in the future, he had to walk away from the marriage.

Last weekend just gone and he had the 'chat' with SIL. Turns out maybe she wasn't coping as well as he had thought as she broke down in hysterics when he told her. This surprised him (and all of us tbf) and things got quite intense. She was practically begging on the floor, clinging on to him, promised she loved him and was sorry for the things she had said and not being there for him. Said she had missed him terribly and didn't want a divorce.

This has guilt ridden my brother and he is now questioning what he should do. He hated seeing her like that, and I think he believes her when she said she realises what a mistake she had been making this past year by not prioritising her family. My brother now doesn't know what to do. He said to me this morning that he doesn't think he's 'in love' with her anymore, but equally marriage is hard and this could just be one of those hard times you have to ride though and could fall back in love with her again if things improved.

I'm honestly at a loss of what to advise him. So fellow mums-netters (if you got this far) what do you think he should do?

YABU - He should give it another shot
YANBU - He should go through with the divorce

Sounds like she's missing her doormat.

He should make up his own mind, based on his own feelings. It sounds from what you say that she's enjoying her new social life, but doesn't want to end her marriage. It's up to him whether he wants to step back into that, or whether he thinks he can hammer out a 'good enough' compromise where they get equal time outside the home. Or whether he's realised he's happier alone, in which case, they get on with separating and working on a civil co-parenting arrangement.

Why don't they stay living apart and have couples counselling?

Not really any of your business. You are only hearing one side of this - not that I’m saying she is in the right here, but I am sure she has her own version of events.

On the other hand, I think it's important to point out that doing the housework and childcare and being tidy isn't any reason to stay in a marriage, for either partner. If you look at a list of what he does and change 'him' to 'her', it would be completely unremarkable, and I can't help feeling it's odd that you need to document in detail exactly how much housework and childcare he does. I mean, they're his children. He doesn't get a DH of the year medal for doing his job and parenting.

I'm not being hostile to your brother, but it's no reason to stay married to someone.

How old are they? From your post, i suspect they're in their early 30s but I don't know

For me it seems they've both changed. Something like dramatic weight loss can really change you, especially if you married young

I'd say he should end it. There's no judgement from me against her, as we only have half of the story, I'm sure she's a great mum. There's nothing wrong with taking some time to yourself and going out.

That said, they both sound like they need to date other people and enjoy life.

When women post here about husbands who don't pull their weight, one of the recommendations is to make a thorough breakdown of all the household and family duties, plus budgets, and hammer out what they see as a fair split.

It may feel like a lot of hassle and a bit cold, but it's a damn sight better than doing everything, losing your rag and walking out to leave the other partner to do everything. It also means you can both see what's working as you go along - and know whether you're being unreasonable if you eventually decide there's no hope.

Walking out for a little while can work as a shock tactic. he's done that. Time to be mature about it. Do they still get on as people, and is there still a spark?

I’m afraid I am voting YABU on the grounds that you are far too involved in your brother’s marriage and posting about it on sm when it’s not your story to tell.

It’s natural to offer your db a listening and supportive ear but I think it’s wise to remain pretty neutral until the relationship has definitively ended. Even then, you will have to be very careful about what messages you are sending to your niece about her mum.

Sorry to be harsh but I don’t think what you are doing now is appropriate. Who knows what goes on in a marriage and you are hardly an objective observer. You haven’t listed one positive characteristic about your sil and in rl, marriages don’t tend to be one person all good and the other all bad. It may be the case but I doubt it!

Your sil may very well be in the wrong but just because your brother is a hard worker, clean and tidy and an involved dad, doesn’t mean that everything is rosy in terms of their relationship. Don’t get me wrong; those things are all great! And it sounds as though your db is the perfect husband. A lot better certainly than half of the men posted about ô Mumsnet!

Something was probably wrong in their relationship way before they lost weight together though. Otherwise they wouldn’t have turned to food to alleviate whatever was wrong in the first place.

Some husbands can look like the perfect man but they are doing “all of the things”
to to be in control, not out of the goodness of their heart.

Maybe the fact that sil transformed herself and suddenly focused on her friends and social life so much was because she felt controlled before?

Who knows op, but I would step way back and give them space to sort this out on their own.

This has nothing to do with you

Only your brother can decide this. You can only offer support no matter what he decides.

Don't go advising anything. Suppose he does as you say and it goes horribly wrong? Provide a listening ear and remember that SIL may have a different experience of the marriage.

Yanbu. I know so many incredible women in late 30s and early 40s (me included) who would snap him up. He could find an incredibly happy relationship within weeks if he properly separated from her.
She probably tried online dating apps and got terrified about how awful single men are so now wants him back.

This. At the very least counselling can be useful to amicably end a marriage. It’ll also show whether she’s willing to go through it, answer the difficult questions, maybe spend some quality time together etc. tbh it sounds like it’s well and truly over but he may feel better if he has the closure that an honest discussion could bring.

Are his parents not your parents? Weird phrasing. Thus sounds made up.

I honestly think you’re over invested and he needs to make his own mind up
if he’s debating going back, he couldn’t have been completely happy and a ‘new man’ in his own.. otherwise he’d just say no. I’d leave them to it tbh

I'm not saying your brother isn't an amazing husband and Dad, but the only two people who truly know the ins and outs of their relationship is your brother and SIL. You can't advise, if he should divorce or go back to your SIL, because you are only hearing one side of the story. What you can advise him to do, is to suggest couples counselling to his wife and see if she'd be open to it. It may be the push they need to work through issues or it will make him realise he really does want a divorce. You can be sympathetic, and listen but he needs to be the one to make the decision.

Yeah tbh my thinking the whole way through this op is in what way does this concern you?? You should very over invested in this and pps are right you're only hearing one side.

When you break this down- he's working shifts and presumably sil also is working so quite often she's doing a lot of the grunt work in terms of bedtimes etc and probably can feel quite lonely sitting in with a child in bed and her husband out at work. So on the nights he is home - she wants to go out and have a gym class or see friends- I can't say I see an issue with this in itself if she's been at home for weeks prior by herself she's probably got a bit of cabin fever and feels like it's his turn to give her a break? It sounds like when your brother isn't working he wants her to still be sitting in the house with him which is probably a little unfair.

People do have different tolerances with housework and I'd be curious as to whether if the roles were reversed you'd be telling your sister to leave if her husband was a bit messy? Or if that would be more accepted because generally we see housework socially as womens work. The secrecy aspect of using the phone - fair enough if that's the case and it's not your brother being jealous/ controlling. Also not all women are naturally clean and tidy people- maybe she's nd and it's never been picked up before so she would find those things harder.

Your brother has been doing what he's supposed to do- parenting his child and running his home so really what they needed to do is probably to seek out couples counselling to really look at the division of labour and when and how they have quality time together.

I wouldn't get involved in this with a barge pole op. Tbh he sounds like he's been running to you flat out criticising his wife instead of dealing directly with her over their issues and there's a danger here that you could accidentally become over bearing without actually knowing the full picture. I'd recommend to him that they go for counselling together and then keep yourself out of it and let them figure it out themselves. My guess is that your sil has been struggling for a long time and has finally started to carve out an identity of her own post having a young family and she's enjoying it. That doesn't make her a bad person so I think you need to step way back from this you have no idea what the dynamics are.