To think there's something really broken about west coast/northern trains?

[MossyPillows]

I don't hear much about it online, but wonder if anyone has noticed this steady but thorough decline in services?
I travel by rail for work between Lancashire and South Cumbria, most Avanti trains are cancelled, very delayed or overly full. This is every day of the week, although much worse on Sundays.
Also issues with Northern Rail, which seemed to be functioning ok until this year. A rail worker at Windermere told us today that 'no one wanted to work Sundays' so the trains were all cancelled for today.
Apparently this had nothing to do with the coming strikes.

Does anyone know what the heck is happening or if there is any awareness countrywide of this issue? It is forcing people into car use even if they choose not to, and god help those who rely on the system to take children to school between towns, or getting to work on time.

It feels like a managed decline, but of course that makes no sense.

Avanti are absolutely terrible, deliberately understaff which is one of the reasons for so many cancellations.

They are so bad they almost had the franchise removed from them last year(?) but the government at the time gave them another three years.

can’t WAIT for them to be nationalised. Travel regularly between Manchester and London and have had one not delayed or cancelled train this whole year.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/20/avanti-west-coast-contract-extended-again-but-warned-improvements-needed

Avanti are absolutely fucking incompetent. I have stopped getting the train, if it's not cancelled then it will be late.

We suffer this shite service from Northern here. It's shockingly bad.

For a good few years there were unofficial weekend strikes on our (northern) rail route, meaning lots of cancellations - it was over pay and conditions.
The unions won a better pay deal for the staff, and now there are regular cancellations. They are cancelled the day before which means they don't show up in the official stats, but it's become increasingly common for one in every three trains to be cancelled, the first and last of the day cancelled, and on a Sunday, two out of three.

Today is the Manchester derby and a major concert, warnings not to drive into the city - and all the trains on our line were cancelled from lunchtime. It's an appalling service. It has been accepted that it's failed - northern were taken over by the government - but they don't seem to have any power to actually get the trains running.

*just to add, the cancellations are due to staff not working overtime or working Sundays which aren't part of their contract. Presumably the better pay deal means they no longer need to, and are working to rule instead.

Most trains through Lancaster towards Preston were cancelled on Thursday, presumably because they don't have enough staff to run the service. They just get away with it.

Sundays are not part of their rota, so they are reliant on staff agreeing to work and extra day. Why should they? I feel sorry for staff on the ground as none of it is their fault, but they take a lot of flack from people so frustrated that train after train is cancelled.

Train drivers contracts cover them working Monday to Saturday. There is no provision in the contract for Sunday working and the train operators are dependent on the goodwill of drivers to work overtime on a Sunday so that services can run. There are a lot of cancellations with Scotrail today because of a shortage of drivers.

Northern always have at least one train cancelled on the board at my station due to:

A train crew member being unavailable
Trespassers on the line
Signalling problem
A previous train being delayed

This is absolutely awful and worse than I had thought.
Is there no government plan to rectify this, surely it can't go on?

Avanti should be fired off in my opinion, I have heard their issues are affecting other services.
DP had to catch one home today, an hours journey became 4.
It's an utter shit show and not worth the ticket prices.

Avanti don't even have sufficient space for luggage either. I would hate to have to take a pram on one of those. The phrase hostile architecture springs to mind, but then I am aware that the stock belonged to Virgin previously.

Apparently the services are reliant on overtime being worked. They were given the pay deal with no change to conditions. Now they have it, it’s not financially as worth it to work the overtime. So services will be further impacted. All shit.

Why on earth aren't Sundays included in their normal working hours. Surely trains have always needed to run on Sundays.

Possibly a stupid question but why don't they recruit more drivers and include Sundays in their contract - they could have an alternative day off in the week.

(Before I get jumped on, yes, I have done a job where Saturdays and Sundays were included my contractual working days).

Workers not being contracted to work Sundays is a massive eye opener 👀 WTF are they relying on good will and overtime for Sundays? Every other industry that needs Sunday workers actually have people sign contracts stipulating the possibility that they will work Sundays. I wonder if people don’t want Sundays because they aren’t sure if they can get a train back to their nearest station ?

@UndeniablyGenX I don't know, but for a long time the reason we were given locally was a shortage due to not being able to train staff during covid. However the service here is worse than ever, and I doubt it takes four years to recruit and train them.

It's so bad that people have had to change jobs. It isnt just Sundays that are affected for us, its no longer possible to get a train that reliably gets you into the city before 8am. More chance if you start work at 9, but given the prior 2 trains will have been cancelled, it's very crowded.

For any Londoners wondering, our trains are every 30 mins usually, so cancelled trains are a big deal! No direct bus service, no tram service.

This explains why I arrived at Birmingham New St this morning to find all the Avanti services cancelled due to “lack of crew”.

Took a cross country service that was as closely packed as a tin of sardines. Was extremely late for work!

https://www.notreallyheremedia.com/news/glossop-chronicle/northern-trains-cancelled-into-manchester-on-busiest-day-of-the-year/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHL46dleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUzogg7p-Rk5RIsSKRtVAZ0o8ofF1Fm_JYShs9SONN7MzOLQ32lpYd_EUw_aem_-m2kEWo_hJMF0QUKIWnQFw

Article here says no trains at all on two lines near us. And though the statement suggests that there are alternate routes - Buxton to Stockport is nearly twenty miles!

Yes its really bad. I live in the area. You then add in, if you use the road due to cancellations, the A590 is a disaster with endless traffic lights causing huge delays, accidents and road closures. It is a remote area and it feels increasingly cut off. It has never seemed as bad.

A family friend says he regrets buying in the area and cites Ulverston as a real frustration. Think no trains running for a week or so due to flooding and roadworks and lights a constant.
Our new MP said she would work on this asap but matters appear worse. Wish I could offer you more hope op.

More chance if you start work at 9, but given the prior 2 trains will have been cancelled, it's very crowded.

Plus, they keep putting on two carriage trains at rush hour!

Get a train at some random time of day when I'm on holiday and they put on four carriages and they're empty, but at rush hour when everyone is queuing down the aisles, we get two carriages.

Sad to hear that. I wonder if many of us who chose to go car free now regret it. We shouldn't have to feel forced, which is depressing. It's as if we are second class citizens.

Yes, DP said Kendal was gridlocked. God knows why on a Sunday in December. Windermere and Ambleside quite calm really, no excess traffic up here. No bloody trains either!

Avanti are shite, Northern are even worse.

It feels sometimes like there is unofficial but coordinated action by staff to bring the service to a standstill, whether that's because of poor management, unions or staff, or a combination of all. However, those people will all still have jobs, which is why I'm not convinced re nationalisation would help.

Plus, they keep putting on two carriage trains at rush hour!

I've noticed this when visiting Manchester. I used to like visiting Liverpool but endless cancellations has put me off in recent years.

It does feel specifically hostile, I so wish the gov would intervene, or that it was more visible in the news.

I'm very reluctant to book the last Avanti train home these days, as there seems too much risk that I won't get there.

Nearly every time I travel with Avanti my train is either massively delayed or cancelled. The uncertainly about whether you will be able to get to your destination or home makes travelling very stressful. It’s particularly bad at this time of year.

I don’t use those two routes, but TransPennine Express aren’t very reliable these days either.