To think different friendship groups very much have their own ‘unwritten rules?’

[Jumell]

I’m talking more about female friend groups but I guess there’s no reason this can’t apply to male and mixed groups.

But there are certain things that are sort of ‘understood’ but not spoken out loud iyswim?

The minute you’re perceived to ‘break’ one of these unwritten rules it changes your dynamic with the rest of the group?

EXAMPLE: I was friends with a lot of very middle class people in school whose parents and themselves were university educated but also very left wing anti Thatcher type people.

However, when at age 18 I got with a working class bloke from a rough council estate who had uneducated parents and had left a rough school with 2 CSEs, then went to live with him in a council flat as a teenager the disbelief and horror on their faces was palpable.

When one of my middle class daughters of teacher friends went to college in a working class area one of the other girls in the group said something to her along the lines of

“you’re not going to socialise with THEM are you?” (meaning kids from working class area)

Well for what it’s worth - I’ve spent all my adult life mixing with THEM (working class people!!), lived on a council estate, been welcomed as part of my ex partner’s working class family, our holidays have been AI 3 Star Benidorm hotels (think a ‘Phoenix Nights demographic!), plenty of bingo, soaps etc and I’ve loved it all !!

But I got edged out of my school friendship group. But it’s been a small price to pay as I always hated the demographic of my school and never fitted in - way before I met my ex.

So AIBU to think there are ‘unwritten’ rules about different kinds of friend groups - break these rules and it causes problems !!

You were friends with stuck up people, that’s it’s plus you may be a bit chippy about your background. This week I’m meeting two friends. One is from a solidly MC background and the other was up in youth court about 12 times as a kid before I knew her and has been done for scrapping in the street in the past. Both great women.

People that navel gaze about class always have some sort of hang up about where they fit in.

Have you any other examples? The one you've given sounds like common-or-garden snobbery rather than an unwritten rule specific to a friendship group.

Yes you’re right on 2 counts -

I was friends with stuck up people
im chippy about my background
I admit I navel gaze too much

Different strokes for different folks

Bought up on a council estate, now live in a naice area and don’t really have to worry too much.

My friends are from secondary and the group ranges from people that still live in HA housing to others in 1M plus houses.

we’ve all been friends for 30+ years and what you do doesn’t matter as long as you are happy and we can see that your happy. We pick each other up when we’re down and we make sure that the things we do can be done by everyone.

Im really really lucky with my friends.

Yes you’re right it’s common garden snobbery but I’ll just have to think ..

I suppose I was different in the girls I went time school with ALL stayed at home till they were 30 - as soon as they left uni they went straight back home and started socialising like they weee 6 formers again

i lived with my ex in a council flat aged 18 and this raised some comments - and eyebrows - from them !!

I think it is normal to form friendships groups with people who have similar values and interests. It sounds as if you never fitted in with the friends you had at school, and in fairness if they went off to uni and you went to live in a council flat at 18 it was likely you would part ways.

But you might want to consider that someone who grew up on that same "rough" council estate and then went away to uni, moved to London and worked in a professional job might feel their old friends had lost interest in them too. There needs to be some common ground, otherwise you will hopefully wish each other well but grow apart.

People that navel gaze about class always have some sort of hang up about where they fit in.

I think this is true. It is framed as an abstract discussion when it is really about some personal discomfort.

I don’t think so in general, no. And I don’t think that your friends being horrified you’d moved in with someone while still in your teens is necessarily snobbery, or that the shock was about his educational level (how did they even know his exam results?) or the location of your flat. Maybe they thought moving in with someone that young was a terrible idea. And I’m from an extremely deprived background. And have friends and family and ILs from my background, and also friends I made at Oxford, most MC and UMC, an ‘Honourable’ and someone whose great-grandfather had a building in our college named after him. Some of their family members did a lot of double-taking when they met me. As did I, in fairness, when I went home with them in the vac and discovered they grew up in a Tudor manor house.

Honestly it's nothing to do with class. They may have been concerned that an 18 year old suddenly wanted to move in with a boyfriend in a "rough area"

I'm as working class as they come but that would concern me too.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder and wanted to be a rebel

I've had the opposite experience. Grew up on a council estate with feckless parents, always the poor, car crash relations in the wider family. Always seen as the pity case.

Put myself through university, seen the world, tastes and outlook changed. No longer fit in with my family although I tried and boy have not been able to forget it from them.

Does that make me a snob for no longer being poor and deprived or have I changed and evolved, become different not better?

You said you never really fitted in at school, which is probably more why you got dropped. I noticed with my dc that as they left school the ones they kept up with were those they did other things with rather than those they'd just been friends with because they were in the same year at school.

And as others have said I suspect it was more concern that their friend was moving in with a boyfriend at 18yo. They probably expected you were more ambitious maybe?

Yes though, I do think some friendship groups have unwritten rules, but I don't think this was a good example.

Haha re your last sentence - always 💪

My parents were also feckless

in fact - I’m inclined to think the Bee Gees brought out a song to honour their behaviour patterns. You might want to check it out. It came out in 1979 and it’s called

Spirits (Having Flowed)

On another note though - from your description it sounds as though you’ve done very well - good on you 💪

"...at age 18 I got with a working class bloke from a rough council estate who had uneducated parents and had left a rough school with 2 CSEs, then went to live with him in a council flat as a teenager the disbelief and horror on their faces was palpable."

I think this would make many people react with disbelief and horror, and nothing to do with class or snobbery. It's great that it worked out for you, but surely you can see that that doesn't sound like a great situation for an 18 year old to be in...

That’s excellent I think 🙌

the disbelief and horror on their faces was palpable

That’s pretty understandable - at 18 they are pursuing further education and you’re a teenager living on a sink estate with a bloke with few prospects. It would be weirder if they weren’t shocked by your choices.

I don’t think there are rules as such, but if you step outside of the norms of a culture, people are surprised and concerned.

It sounds like your self image is tied up in being a working class rebel, kicking against the boring middle classes.

Well as John Lennon told us ..

”A working class hero is something to be ..”

lol that’s a line I used with my Dad once

Honestly you will be happier in yourself if you brush the chip off your shoulder.

I don’t think that what you’ve described is
necessarily a good example of unwritten rules. But they absolutely exist. One of the reasons people group together is because of shared values - if you need to spell everything out all the time it’s exhausting / robs the joy + spontaneity sometimes. Of course it’s nice to be inclusive - but we don’t have to be in maximum-awareness-social-worker mode for all our downtime.

things I have never spoken about explicitly with my school gate friends

• group dinners / nights out - nothing goes on social media + is never talked about outside of our close knit crew of 6 in front of other parents
• were all scrupulous about evening things out financially without ever talking about it / talking about it - it’s not about how much we have - it’s about a shared spirit of generosity.
• we don’t talk about other school parents at all beyond the occasional ‘I need to know where Mary’s blue coat came from’

our group works becuase we’re discreet, generous and avoid gossip.

with my university chums - who are a bit more scattered I’d say

• when we are together - we really not interested in new people / chatting to strangers in bars. Time is too precious.
• we would check in with the group before posting anything social
• we always have a non-drinking activity + a dinner. We don’t discuss a friends historic struggles with alcohol but we make sure it’s not shoved in her face and she’s welcome
• we dont talk about diets / food issues - we have a couple of friends with histories of very disordered eating. Weight chat isn’t ok.
• we all pay our own way - no equally split checks for someone who’s had a salad + someone who’s had a steak and wine.

our group works because we’re mindful of each other’s different circumstances and prioritise quality time together over individual preferences.