To be annoyed at being told to be considerate of disabled people

[DefendingPan]

This sign was in the disabled toilet in a restaurant (which is also the only baby change in the restaurant).

What’s the point of this sign? What might parents be doing that they will stop after reading this?

Reading these comments I'm certain I'll be flamed for this, but as a new parent they make for depressing reading. I'm surprised to see such a lack of understanding that facilities for babies are often woefully inadequate, only the constant 'disabled needs trump anyone and everything' mantras.
No one is disputing that. And I'm absolutely not suggesting disabled facilities should be sacrificed for baby-related spaces, but that doesn't mean I think it's right that infants and new mothers/pregnant women are always pushed to the back of the queue and seemingly never have suitable provision.

My sister (who's 30 weeks pregnant) recently had to board a train with my 15 month old niece, in a pram and with a weekend bag. It was a 2 hour journey but no stops between where she got on and where she was alighting. The only place she ccould sit with the pram was in the only wheelvhair spot on a 10 carriage train (no wheelchair user on board). She was told to move- which meant trying to find a home for her bag, collapsing the pram and storing it all while juggling a toddler, and then wrestling with her on her lap for 90 minutes. This is despite no wheelchair user needing that space.

So whilst I appreciate that disabled person's do have needs that should always be treated with consideration, it's a shame that so many people don't see how inconsiderately we treat young children and their parents and how often they're made to feel unwelcome. It's not a race to the bottom.

It was in response to a poster with a lack of perspective outside their own issues, taking an innocent explanation someone made on why joint facilities exist in small businesses, and seeing it as a campaign against disabled people. Being disabled doesn't preclude people from being inconsiderate or selfish - always assuming the worst intentions in the most innocuous actions and comments, or refusing to understand a different perspective is ignorant and offensive BS too.

Yes, I read this poster's comments the exact same way @VegTrug

I've also been shopping with my friend and her 3 kids and she's come out of the disabled toilets saying how it's fucking stupid that they leave the alert cables around for kids to grab a hold of, and I've had to tell her she's completely missed the point of accessibility and gone in after her and unwound it.

I have read some outrageous things on these type of threads, but this honestly is one of the worst things I have read. Does your friend not understand that someone could collapse, and even die because she has done such a stupid thing?

It’s not a race to the bottom, I agree. Legislation is coming into effect next year compelling business owners to make separate provision for disabled and baby changing facilities. I expect it will have about as much effect as the legislation making premises accessible for wheelchair users - which is very little because it’s not enforced. Much of disability legislation designed to protect and uphold disabled peoples’ rights isn’t. Nobody cares. You have no room for comment until you have been sitting in a wheelchair, desperate for a pee and having to wait for a breastfeeding mother to come out of the disabled toilet. I haven’t experienced it myself, but I’ve come across many disabled clients who have boarded trains and buses, only to be unable to travel because mums refuse to move prams for them and there is nowhere else for them to safely travel. You reap what you sow. I’m sorry, but parenthood is a choice, disability is not.

I would take the pushchair into the baby change and go to the toilet there but they don't often have a toilet (why is there never a toilet?). In that situation I would use the disabled toilet which we call at work at the accessible toilet so anyone who needs it can use it.

Plus young children can't often wait to walk upstairs to where the other toilets might be.

I'm not pitting them against one another. It was a reminder to a specific poster that everyone has to make choices about which restaurants suit their needs best (based on facilities, toilets, dietary requirements, breasfeeding friendliness, service etc) and it is entitled to expect every place to be big enough to have separate changing facilities and disabled toilets. If the biggest problem someone has is not being able to eat in a certain restaurant because they deem the number/quality of disabled toilets inadequate - they're doing better than most people, disabled and otherwise.

Being a mother is not anywhere near comparable to being a wheelchair user, honestly nobody has any sympathy or understanding for the realities of wheelchair user, it’s not just sitting there with a blanket over your knees all quiet and completive, it’s an endless list of hardships that are not helped by “whaaa won’t someone think of the parents who have full mobility and chose that life!”. Just look up the list of physical things that a wheelchair user loses beyond just the use of their legs, it’s really extensive and you won’t have realised half of it. Then put that person out in the world full of people who use their facilities and bump into them and ignore them and you will just be getting there!

Why is there never a toilet in the baby change rooms? That way I can use the toilet without using a disabled one (not leaving my toddler in his pram unattended!)

All of this. I have an adult disabled DC, and I've had angry mothers having a go when we came out of the combined baby change/accessible loo.

It is worth pointing out that this was the only accessible toilet in the restaurant....

The fact that you came out together wasn't a clue that one of you had a disability then?

Some people need to get their heads out of their backsides...

Why did your sister do that journey if she didn't have adequate support?

I'm not saying this to be facetious or anything but many of us disabled people are also parents so we DO get the difficulties of having to juggle a child but we are also highly restricted in what we can and can't do if we do not have someone to support us. It's a highly dependent and undignified life.

Your sister should fold her pram down because had someone with a wheelchair or mobility aid needed to get on and she hadn't they would be left in the middle of a train carriage unrestrained and possibly in a dangerous position whilst they wait for your sister to then, on a possible moving train, have to fold her pushchair down and wrangle a small child too.

Just because nobody needed it right then doesn't exempt her from foresight or consideration.

She chose to be pregnant. She chose to have a child. She chose to travel that day. She chose to travel with that luggage and she chose to go alone without support.

For us disabled people, we often don't travel because the choices that enable us safety or independence are hindered by people being inconsiderate or we have to have a support person with us, and everything is a battle or an argument or a confrontation just to find a seat, or a wheelchair space or a ramp.

Now my disabled child uses a pushchair as a wheelchair because he has no physical disabilities but requires constant restraint for his safety and I couldn't tell you how many times I've had unnecessary conflict with people using accessible spots on buses and trains and trams for their shopping or pushchairs or luggage, and it has made me quite fearful of going out so we only travel when absolutely necessary. Do you know how isolating that is?

Yes it was shit for me as a parent trying to find adequate facilities for my child when he was a baby but it's such a short period of time in life for many but for us unlucky lot it never ends.

This needs repeating as often as possible. An accessible toilet which anyone who needs it can use, is a larger cubicle within a standard facility of smaller cubicles. A stand alone separate toilet room is not an accessible toilet. It’s exclusively for the use of disabled people. If it’s separate from the standard facility you are not entitled to use it unless you have a disability.

This doesn't make sense to me. So whenever I'm in the queue at the loo (for the ladies) and someone new joins the line, we should be trying to suss out whose need is more urgent.
You, elderly lady in the middle, how is your muscles after all these years. Oh no wait you're freshly postpartum are you, mam? Sure, you go first. Ahh sorry I missed you there at the back, you have a 4 year old? She's not good at holding it, yes maybe you go first?

Why would a disabled person automatically need the loo more urgent than a baby/toddler.
Sounds a bit ableist to me.
"Ahh disabled are you, poor you, can't keep your wee in for very long, tsk , sorry let this lady come through she's disabled!!"

Yes it's probably this - a 'friendly' reminder to parents that they must understand they are the least important and must never dare to expect anything all - don't forget 'you chose to have a baby!!' 🙄

Reasons the UK birth rate is plummeting, parents are treated like entitled upstarts rather than children and families being made to feel welcome and wanted

And I shall repeat also @Rosscameasdoody
no it isnt
Accessible toilets are just that
Whether standalone or not. There’s no difference. Anyone can use them
Theres no law against people using an accessible toilet no matter where it is located
It’s not a parking space, there’s a difference.

More ableist nonsense. What restaurant to eat in because of the disabled facilities will be the last thing on the list of most disabled people’s lists of priorities - who are you to make that assumption ? The Equality Act was designed to integrate disabled people into society so that they could enjoy its benefits on a par with those without disabilities, and not hijacked by ignorant and selfish people. If disabled facilities are provided, they should be just that - for the use of those with disabilities. You seem not to want to acknowledge that disabled people have very difficult lives. Why is that I wonder ?

If the biggest problem someone has is not being able to eat in a certain restaurant because they deem the number/quality of disabled toilets inadequate - they're doing better than most people, disabled and otherwise.

I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that's not my biggest problem in life, and if you had the misfortune to be forced to navigate the world in a wheelchair, you would probably think twice about making comments like this one. But as I said, I hope you never have to find out.

I'm out because it's just too depressing.

she would only have been told to do this if it impeded the aisle.
And everyone knows it is hard with young kids. The difference with wheelchair users is it is impossible without a wheelchair space, and even with a wheelchair space it is still hard.

It is very annoying when you need a wee but can't access the disabled because you need a key and the baby change has no toilet so having to take the pushchair into the ladies and wee with the door open to keep an eye on your pram.

This is why radar toilets are becoming more common.

This. I agree entirely. Some people are just oblivious.

Especially as men can use them now, but that’s a whole other thousand threads !

Radar keys are so toilets can only be accessed by disabled people. These toilets are only for disabled people.

So if the main toilet is up stairs I should leave the pram downstairs and walk upstairs? No thanks. I would rather not use the downstairs toilet but it has the changing thing in as well so needs must.