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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to say enough is enough?

23 replies

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 11:15

There is far far too much for me to tell the full story but i'll try to include only the most relevant points of the past and recent points! Met my ex 22yrs ago, broke up 17yrs ago because i fell pregnant, he wanted me to abort, i refused. He was extremely emotionally abusive and controlling, as anyone who knows about how insidious this can be and how often victims can't see the abuse, internalise it and blame themselves, it took me years to actually realise what had happened to me. Of course because i chose the baby over him (he literally gave me that ultimatum, him or baby) he was furious and told me i would regret it, little did i know he meant that he would make me regret it!

I have been dragged through 17 years of repeated bogus family court applications, every time a final order was made he was never happy with the outcome so he simply reapplied with fresh false accusations and the whole process started again, i have been accused of everything you could think of. I let him get away with not paying child support for 5 years because i was scared to provoke him and when i finally did apply he retaliated (as i knew he would) by going for full custody, he even accused me of sexually molesting our child to try and achieve this. He has sporadically paid since, i initially contacted him about missed payments but he would use that as an opportunity to threaten and harass me and say, it can't be harassment because i contacted him first, i then realised he was purposefully stopping payments to force me to initiate contact with him, so i have simply allowed him to get away with regularly missing payments since and there is a very obvious pattern to the missed payments, he always misses the payment immediately before christmas day, my birthday, my wedding anniversary, valentines etc.

Our child has made many accusation of violence and abuse against him since a very young age, mostly to school teachers who have then made referrals. These have almost always gone against me with him claiming i make our child lie and coach them into making these accusations out of bitterness, child is then called a liar and forced to continue with court ordered contact where they are severely punished for having spoken out. 2 years ago our child again, accused him of violence, showed school staff injuries and they again contact social services, i begged and pleaded with them not to, i'd been through this too many times before and new exactly what the outcome would be, that i would be blamed, child would be punished and things would get even worse for us. The police became involved when social services said a child as old as this is usually taken more seriously. After the police and social services visited dad he again pulled the same "its all mums fault, mums mentally unstable, mums a parental alienator" tactic that's worked so well in the past and actually requests that social services and the police give him immunity from being investigated in the future should our child make further allegation, obviously they told him that's impossible but i do think the social worker finally saw him for what he was for even suggesting that. He then refused to have any further contact with child until he was granted this "immunity".

I have social services documents that he was the one who officially ceased contact with child so i wouldn't get in trouble for court order breaches. He had repeatedly accused me of breaches that had never happened to try and get me in trouble before so i requested this be included in their report. Child is now over 16 anyway and the contact order is expired, my residence order remains in force until 18.

In the last 2 years he has contacted child directly and arranged to see her about 10 times, usually parties, birthdays, a wedding, christmas etc.... i am never consulted or contacted, not even a polite "just to let you, child will be with me this date" (i am fine with this). He even took child out of the country without my knowledge or consent, which is illegal AND in breach of a specific issue order relating to holidays abroad that has been in place for 10 years. (there is a whole other story here about him getting a secret passport for child, booking a secret holiday, attempting to take child abroad, making an emergency without notice application to court and lying to a judge i was refusing to consent to a holiday i knew nothing about). I did not react to this or report him, or take any action of any kind. I really have no desire to get him in trouble i really just want to finally be free of him and i'm not stupid enough to poke the bear.

This brings us to today, every single damn time that he arranges anything with child, he flat out refuses to bring them home, we have had to drive absolutely miles at absurd times of night to collect them. This passed Tuesday they arranged a day out, he refused to even pick up from school, made them get a bus to him, then at 9pm we get a text from him telling us to come and get them otherwise he's keeping them til Friday, they had school Wednesday and had tried to bullying them into just lying and phoning in sick, he also had invited childs partner on trip, also a minor. The journey from home, to location, to drop off partner, back to home took 2.5 hours which we were given no choice but to do. My husband went but ended up getting in a massive row, dad was insisting we were unreasonable and that he's never done anything like this before and my husband just absolutely lost it because he is constantly pulling stuff like this, childs partners mum also phoned and swore and shouted at him (she has also had to go collect the kids before because he does this every time)

Dad is now playing victim, accusing us of verbally abusing and intimidating him, blaming the children even.

Am i being unreasonable to say enough is enough? i feel like he doesn't even actually want to spend this time with the child, its all about causing as much chaos as he can and some bizarre form of control that he can just volunteer me to drive around here there and everywhere without consulting me or even notifying me. Then just effectively abandon our child to force my hand. I don't really even know what i can even do to stop this? Any advise or suggestions please. I'm fairly certain my child is trauma bonded, very much people pleases and goes along with anything dad wants, absolutely desperate for his attention and love, knows what he is but still wishes for and hopes he's capable of change, has serious abandonment issues, entire paternal family cuts ties with child every time dad does, fear of losing everyone if doesn't bow down to dads demands. I thought after the court order expired a would finally be free of him.

Why on earth can't he just pick up, spend quality time and return, without badmouthing me constantly and dragging me into it somehow!?

It seems completely obvious to me that his behaviour is utterly unreasonable but he seems to genuinely believe he's done nothing wrong and is even demanding an apology from us all... including child?! I genuinely feel like i'm going insane, his family fully support him and often send child revolting messages about me and about how badly we treat dad. he's obviously lying to them and that's not their fault but will this ever end??? Its been 22 years?? This is insane!

OP posts:
LadyAmroth · 13/12/2024 11:27

How old is the child now? Do they even want to see him?

LadyAmroth · 13/12/2024 11:28

Ah sorry, missed a bit in your op

Stormyweatheroutthere · 13/12/2024 11:43

Can't dc travel on public transport? I never had any contact with my exh once dc hit secondary school age... There really is no need for you to be involved..

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 11:51

Stormyweatheroutthere · 13/12/2024 11:43

Can't dc travel on public transport? I never had any contact with my exh once dc hit secondary school age... There really is no need for you to be involved..

there is no public transport at night where we live, he always pulls this sort of thing in the middle of the night.

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 11:53

The child is 17? Move away and cut contact.

annonymousse · 13/12/2024 11:55

The child is over 16 and knows his behaviour. I think I would get tough with her and just refuse to do the pick up until a convenient time for you. I know it's harsh but she needs to know her choices have consequences. It's the only way I can see for you to take the power away from him.

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 11:55

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 11:53

The child is 17? Move away and cut contact.

16, doing gcse's, found out was pregnant 17 years ago! I genuinely wish it was possible to move, i really do, i'd do it in a heartbeat!

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 11:58

I understand.

Absolutely enough is enough. At his age he can choose not to see him ever again. How is he feeling?

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 12:03

annonymousse · 13/12/2024 11:55

The child is over 16 and knows his behaviour. I think I would get tough with her and just refuse to do the pick up until a convenient time for you. I know it's harsh but she needs to know her choices have consequences. It's the only way I can see for you to take the power away from him.

I did say this to her before she even left on tuesday... we all knew it would happen... i even have texts between me and hubs about it before it even happened, he does it ever damn time, i told her i would turn off my phone and it was tough luck, i just couldn't follow through with it. She was distraught, didn't get home till 11.30pm, didn't sleep all night and then got herself suspended at school the next day lashing out at her teacher, taking her upset out on the wrong people. I have now told her that enough is enough, but i feel so guilty about it, none of this is her fault. Why can't he just spend time with her without creating problems that literally should not exist!

OP posts:
FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 12:07

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 11:58

I understand.

Absolutely enough is enough. At his age he can choose not to see him ever again. How is he feeling?

for YEARS she has wanted nothing to do with him, but her extended paternal family mean a lot to her. She's tried to maintain relationships with them separately from him but they cut her off when he does. The are very much she see's them all or none of them and have cut ties with her every time that he has, they are quite cult like.

OP posts:
annonymousse · 13/12/2024 12:07

I agree it's not her fault but it's not yours either. And as you say you both know it's going to happen but every time so far you have come to her rescue so she has no consequence for her choices. You just can't win whatever you do.

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 12:16

annonymousse · 13/12/2024 12:07

I agree it's not her fault but it's not yours either. And as you say you both know it's going to happen but every time so far you have come to her rescue so she has no consequence for her choices. You just can't win whatever you do.

that is very much how i feel, whatever i do i'm always in the wrong, if i try to stand up to him i feel like i'm letting her down. Plus he always seems to escalate if he doesn't get the reaction he wanted. Its taken him 12 years of baiting my husband for him to finally react and now he's acting like that's how he's always been and he's feigning concern for our child's welfare living with him. She desperately wants to maintain a relationship with her little half siblings and cousins but they will not allow her to have that separately from him. She knows she's better off without him but the thought of losing everyone else makes it to hard for her to cut ties, which i understand, its an impossible situation but it can't go on its damaging the mental health of my entire family.

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 12:37

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 12:07

for YEARS she has wanted nothing to do with him, but her extended paternal family mean a lot to her. She's tried to maintain relationships with them separately from him but they cut her off when he does. The are very much she see's them all or none of them and have cut ties with her every time that he has, they are quite cult like.

Oh she’s a she, sorry about that!

It sounds like you’re going in the right direction. Stepping back from the fall out.

She’s almost an adult. I would convey to dd that her relationships with them should now start transitioning to being entirely her own responsibly and that her dad’s family should be leaving you to live your new life in peace. See if she can imagine what it’s like to still have an ex in your pocket after 17 years.

Gorgonemilezola · 13/12/2024 12:39

How has he not been classed as a vexatious applicant by the court?

You need to have a serious talk to your DC and point out that neither your ex nor his family have her best interests at heart, he has physically abused her and the relationship is not healthy. Support her in cutting him loose.

Neither you nor your DH should have amythong further to do with him and your daughter needs to understand she is being manipulated. Ant chance of some therapy for her?

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 13:02

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 12:37

Oh she’s a she, sorry about that!

It sounds like you’re going in the right direction. Stepping back from the fall out.

She’s almost an adult. I would convey to dd that her relationships with them should now start transitioning to being entirely her own responsibly and that her dad’s family should be leaving you to live your new life in peace. See if she can imagine what it’s like to still have an ex in your pocket after 17 years.

I've had this conversation with her for the last 2 years. When he told social services he was cutting ties with her and it was all officially documented that he was ceasing contact and his reason for doing so was to "protect himself from her and her false allegations" that i wouldn't be involved anymore. When he started reappearing and asking her to go for special occasion's i again said i would have no part of it but i wouldn't prevent her. He started encouraging her to harass me about travel and saying its my responsibility to do half. I refused especially because he never gives notice for these things and he had already previously argued with a judge about travel and was told in no uncertain terms that if it was a day visit without an overnight or a late evening that he is 100% responsible for the travel. He has sent her messages before saying "if your mum doesn't pick you up you can't come to the wedding which is a real shame because we've bought you a present"... "if your mum doesn't pick you up you'll have to sleep over" (she is terrified of staying there and finds it impossible to sleep so just stays up all night) "your mum's just being difficult because she's never wanted you to see me and this proves she's been the problem all along" and these occasions she ended up not going, although i did agree to pick her up from the wedding (picked her up drunk i might add because they let her drink) then he stopped trying to get her to bully me into it and just started taking her and refusing to return her, giving me no choice. She showed me the messages about tuesday and he was being deliberately vague about how she was getting home and saying "we will sort it out when you get here" when she got there he was trying to get her out of school for the rest of the week and to phone in sick, encouraging her to lie. She refused to thats when he contacted us too get her and again started calling her a liar and saying he made it clear she was staying all week or we would have to get her, my husband came back with "all week??? you got the school consent for a term time holiday then?" he actually lied and said he had... i've checked with the school, no holiday request was made and they would not consent for a term time holiday for her if he had. so it would have been me that ended up with the fines. He's incredibly manipulative as well, when she says no to things he will then get her siblings and cousins to start bombarding her with messages and guilt tripping her until she caves. His girlfriend makes more of an effort than he does and she's taken DD out on shopping trips or day trips and there's been zero problem, collects/spends time/returns, doesn't mention me... thats how it should be! i don't understand why he can't just leave me alone.

OP posts:
OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 13:12

He sounds like a nasty piece of work. It’s an abusive relationship. Does she read? There are great books all about these things. She needs her eyes opened to the patterns.

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 13:33

Gorgonemilezola · 13/12/2024 12:39

How has he not been classed as a vexatious applicant by the court?

You need to have a serious talk to your DC and point out that neither your ex nor his family have her best interests at heart, he has physically abused her and the relationship is not healthy. Support her in cutting him loose.

Neither you nor your DH should have amythong further to do with him and your daughter needs to understand she is being manipulated. Ant chance of some therapy for her?

she's terrified of talking to anyone, every time she's spoken out about abuse they have reported everything she's said back to him. One social worker even interviewed her with him in the room.

He's played every possible trick in the book, he's even attended court with fathers rights activists as Mckenzie friends. Copy and pastes statements from fathers rights sites accusing me of having done all the typical things implacably hostile mothers do to deny contact, even though none of it applied to me and i wasn't doing any of it but it got judges nodding along and believing it because its what they were so used to seeing. He portrayed himself as this dotting, concerned father and he did it very well. He also did very devious things like make emergency applications and without notice applications, cancelled hearings delay things, take advantage of the fact that each new case was usually heard by a new judge with no knowledge of our prior cases. He essentially created this paper trail of "evidence" that i was hostile and that he was being forced to return to court because i was denying contact, i couldn't even prove that i was sending her 100% of the time and had never denied contact. New judges often didn't even know he was asking for things previous judges had already said no too. I also couldn't afford a solicitor and had to self rep, usually kept quiet and agreed to most things out of fear i'd make things wore for myself the only thing i ever rigidly refused was the reversal of residence. Its been true hell and i've lived so long with this little light at the end of the tunnels, wishing life away until he can't use the courts to harass me anymore that i actually can't believe he's still finding a way to dig his claws in. I'm utterly exhausted!

OP posts:
FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 13:51

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 13:12

He sounds like a nasty piece of work. It’s an abusive relationship. Does she read? There are great books all about these things. She needs her eyes opened to the patterns.

She used to read a lot but now she finds it extremely difficult to focus on the words. I've tried sending her podcasts to listen too. They've also done a lot at school in PSHE about unhealthy relationships and she had online homework which was a multiple choice questionnaire, and it described various scenarios between two people and you had to decide whether it was and example of a healthy or unhealthy relationship. After you clicked your answer, if would tell you if you were correct and then explained what made it either healthy or unhealthy. She was sobbing by the end of it and said my dad does every single one of the unhealthy one's. I have started to send her recovery podcasts as well now, a lot of them do talk about going no contact but frankly I've been trying to be no contact with him for years and it seems impossible to get away, i don't even have the ties to the rest of the family like she does. I am considering talking to her about changing her number but i don't know if i would be going to far.

OP posts:
AlertCat · 13/12/2024 14:12

I see how she is torn but if she understands the problems, could it be that next time she wants to see him, she organises a taxi for herself to get home? Or insists on seeing him somewhere local to her or at a time she can get the bus afterwards.
I would be saying quite strongly that I advise her not to see him if he is so unhealthy and it’s clear that the relationship upsets her. Like you I wouldn’t stop her, but I wouldn’t be facilitating it any more either.

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 15:17

I imagine from my own experience that you’re scared of “alienating” her from her father because you think it would prove her dad right and because you couldn’t be seen to be alienating her when under the rule of courts.

She is a young woman now who is being emotionally abused.

Personally I have been at the point where I’ve said “They can chuck me behind bars if they want, I’m not facilitating contact between my daughter and an abusive man.” That’s a hill I’d die on now.

(I don’t think they actually do that, but it’s the principle!)

She’s so close to being an adult. You’ve come a long way.

FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 16:16

AlertCat · 13/12/2024 14:12

I see how she is torn but if she understands the problems, could it be that next time she wants to see him, she organises a taxi for herself to get home? Or insists on seeing him somewhere local to her or at a time she can get the bus afterwards.
I would be saying quite strongly that I advise her not to see him if he is so unhealthy and it’s clear that the relationship upsets her. Like you I wouldn’t stop her, but I wouldn’t be facilitating it any more either.

unfortunately it would be about £70 for a taxi from where he lives. This trip that we had to make last Tuesday because they weren't at his home, and would have needed to drop her bf off at his would have been £120. Its not something we could reasonably afford especially when he regularly skips child maintenance. He was financially abusive during our relationship, ran up debts in my name he never repaid it took years to pay off, stole thousands of my inheritance when my nan died, didn't pay any child maint at all for 5 whole years and i feel like him forcing me to fork out for taxi fares i genuinely can not afford, is just another way for him to financially abuse me.

OP posts:
FunnyTaupeCat · 13/12/2024 16:37

OriginalUsername2 · 13/12/2024 15:17

I imagine from my own experience that you’re scared of “alienating” her from her father because you think it would prove her dad right and because you couldn’t be seen to be alienating her when under the rule of courts.

She is a young woman now who is being emotionally abused.

Personally I have been at the point where I’ve said “They can chuck me behind bars if they want, I’m not facilitating contact between my daughter and an abusive man.” That’s a hill I’d die on now.

(I don’t think they actually do that, but it’s the principle!)

She’s so close to being an adult. You’ve come a long way.

well that's pretty accurate yes and many times i have felt like he only behaves this way because he wants me to flip and put a stop to it because he feels that will then prove him right, the notion that he's caused it all with his behaviour wouldn't matter. I've also experienced a lot of people who seem to think there is no acceptable reason to stop a child from seeing the other parent. I've been so compliant and agreeable all these years because i've seen first hand what happens to women who deny contact even to the most extremely abusive men. I did the freedom programme and spent time at a womens refuge many years ago and knew women who lost custody i was terrified it would happen to me if i didn't just go along with everything, and tbh honest for many years even after everything i kept this stupid tiny glimmer of hope that he would grow and maybe one day actually be a good dad but i genuinely feel the older he's got the more unreasonable and down right vindictive he has become. When he accused me of sexual abuse it was the end of hope and i'll be honest i haven't even tried to get along with him since then, i sat in court unable to talk properly (gp said i suffered a stress induced speech impediment that last 2 days, genuinely thought i was having a stroke) was the absolute worst experience of my life there will never be any coming back from that and i never understood how his family supported him in that application, years later i found out through social services that he was telling everyone that the story happened in reverse, that i accused him and was trying to stop his contact. He reverses events all the time and it makes you feel utterly insane. Has tried to convince my daughter i punched him in front of her and she only doesn't remember it because she's blocked it out due to the trauma of it. i'm sorry i'm rambling, i mostly only posted this because i've been a mess since tuesday felling like its never going to end and just needed an outlet to rant a bit. Thanks everyone for letting me offload a bit and i'm sorry for all who are or have been through similar.

OP posts:
AlertCat · 13/12/2024 19:02

It’s incredible that the courts still take the side of men like this. I’m so sorry.

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