Swiped - The school that banned mobile phones

[chaosmaker]

Watched both episodes and was fairly astounded as to how clueless the presenters were about phone use in children and the sites that can be accessed. Also algorithms.

The children in the experiment were 12 with smartphones that they spent hours on and this seemed to stop them doing things they should be doing at 12 like playing and socialising in person.

I'm just interested in why people just don't give their children dumb phones if they think they need them. The studies on brain development seem to point to traits that can be present in ND so given that fact, I'm wondering if that is correlated with so much SEN and ND diagnoses in children.

It's an interesting programme and worth watching just for the science bits if nothing else. Also for how the children themselves felt during the 21 days they didn't have their phones and other devices for.

Reasonable - children should only have dumb phones and parents could make this a cultural shift en masse

Unreasonable - children need to learn social media at any cost and must have tech.

I imagine they have to allow it in casess where kids are Diabetic etc as it's a medical device, they wouldn't ban wheel chairs so theu can't ban CGM,s .

You could try some of the resources on CEOP. They have different approaches for different age groups.
https://www.ceopeducation.co.uk/parents/Listing/?cat=&ref=4765#mMain

I really don't think phones have anything to do with focus and concentration

Your opinion does not align with the scientific research that shows focus and concentration is affected. (As well as plenty of anecdotal evidence, eg the difference noted by teachers).

I watched it with my teenagers. I think for the overall message it would be good to watch with a year six child, however there is mention of porn and suicide/children dying so it depends on how mature/able to understand these topics your child is and how comfortable you are with them seeing discussion about it. I recommend watching it yourself first and making an assessment, you may just want to wind through some bits.

You also have to look at it from the angle of banning them makes them more attractive. The kids with them will have social social status.

how will kids get them if they’re banned and their parents don’t buy them? How do you think? Girls will go out with older men who buy them one, boys will be exploited criminally. There will be a roaring trade in second hand phones.

even now kids who’d parents have “banned” phones, or only allow their kids dumb phones- in 99% of cases that child has a smart phone somewhere. Bought off school mates, or worse off exploitative adults.

my mate is a social worker. Says if a kid goes missing and they aren’t allowed smart phones, they will have a secret second phone. Even if the parents think they don’t have social media, or even better set them up with accounts so they can log in and monitor- those kids aren’t stupid and will have secondary secret accounts. So the parents think they know what their kid is doing online and get a false sense of security.

best option is to educate kids- lessons in schools on internet use. At the very least it might help their critical thinking with

At my school there is an exemption for diabetes. It's pretty simple- different rule if needed

Knowing what I know now and seeing how concentration spans have disappeared in my classroom , I wouldn’t let any child of mine have a smart phone until they were 14. Teens have been part of a massive experiment. We are now getting the data on what mobile phones do to developing brains. It’s time to act.

I did a parents evening once where a parent sat looking at a phone the whole time I was speaking, I don't think it's just young people who need to think more safely about screen time and relating to others online.

Years ago, when mobile phones were just phones, A couple sat down for a parent teacher meeting, the man's phone rang and he stood up, no apology or excuse me, walked over to the window and had a conversation while I spoke to his wife. When he rejoined us he told me to repeat what I'd told his wife and when I said we didn't have time he became angry, Who the hell did I think I was? etc etc. As I walked through the Hall later he was talking angrily to the Head and I went over. 'I've just been saying how very rude you were when I had to take an very urgent phone call!' I proceeded to tell the Head the tee-off time for next morning and the arrangements for the Golf Club dinner! The Head could hardly keep his face straight and the father stormed off.

The extra expense for tickets etc for not buying on an app really shouldn't be legal. What is the justifiction for it if any at all?
Lots of really good points made on the thread. I personally resisted a smartphone or even a mobile until I was 32 and in university.
I really miss the freedom of being out/occupied and not there to answer the phone :D

Phone app is quick and easy, no waste paper... takes less driver time.

Why do you miss the freedom? If I'm out walking, my phone is on silent. It is a tool... for me.

Phone app is quick and easy, no waste paper.

Not always quick and easy. I frequently travel by train to a university city. Always a crowd at the exit with students waving their phones at the ticket barriers, and those of us with paper tickets standing and waiting.

That would be to do with other people's expectations and stupid work.

You also have to look at it from the angle of banning them makes them more attractive

Lots of things are banned if you're a child. Should we give them cigarettes, bottle of vodka and a motorbike?

I really miss the freedom of being out/occupied and not there to answer the phone

Just turn it off? I do.

things they should be doing at 12 like playing and socialising in person.

Socialising out of school would almost only ever be with us adults & siblings, then, since their mates took bus to school, otherwise lived far away from our home.

Agree they are detrimental. DS had to get one at 16 as it was no longer viable to do life without (decided by him, we would have let him have one earlier). This was helped by the fact they are strictly banned at his school.
We'd all be better off without them I think but they are insidiously woven into our lives now.

So you're saying other peoples choice to use echnology is slowing you down? But how do you get your paper ticket, out of thin air?

Sorry just to chime in here - I'm against really young kids having screens too, but screens do not cause autism or ADHD or sensory processing disorder etc.

Early and prolonged screen use affects white matter in the brain (which impacts cognitive skills, language, and literacy) and there's also evidence it disrupts neurotransmitter balance. It's linked to the development of autistic-like traits in children which are "virtually indistinguishable" from idiopathic autism, and there's a strong correlation - the more screen exposure there is, the higher the risk of these traits developing.

No one is saying all children that have autism or adhd have been neglected/given screens and that's how it was caused. We know that isn't the case, but the problem is it looks like autism-like traits are being induced by parents in children through parenting choices, and it's not easily possible to tell which cohort is which.

Yes, it's 'only' correlation that has been found so far, but it's still very worrying that the link is so clear. We hear so much about the risks of SM etc but comparatively little about the developmental risks of sitting a baby in front of screens.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10442849/

But how do you get your paper ticket, out of thin air?

From the ticket window, as I always have done. When it's open, that is.

We'd all be better off without them I think but they are insidiously woven into our lives now.

I think the same. We know how addictive they are for adults, what hope have children got? It makes me feel really sad somehow, I can't just roll with it.

Its difficult. We replaced our teens phone with a a dumb phone for a few months when he made some stupid choices with it. We have it back eventually as he was becoming isolated from his friends. All.communicatiin, meet ups etc. happens via whatsapp. Even when he was able to meet up with them, he wasn't wanting to because they all sit around on phones and he couldn't.

All their school info, communication and homework is also online now.

I am totally in favour of kids having no or very limited access to a lot of the internet but it needs legislation to make this happen. The companies running sites like snapchat and tiktok could prevent access if they wanted to. The simple fact is they dont want to. They want to make money.

There is a middle ground. My DD (13) has a smart phone, she is allowed WhatsApp to communicate with friends, but it is checked 3 x a week - and it IS checked. She isn't allowed any form of social media ie TikTok, Insta, FB etc. Her phone content is age restricted and she is only allowed to access certain list of websites - she wants to get on a different one then she asks. All apps have to be approved by me.
Her tv is also controlled via our phones - we can cut the internet off to it much to her horror and again its age restricted.
No devices allowed upstairs after 9 pm (bedtime + wind down reading time). Limited time on it.
And she gets plenty of fresh air etc.

They have their good points - life 360 is brilliant, we also have family WhatsApps etc and I see no harm in her chatting to her friends. Just need limiting and parenting!

Oh and her school doesn't allow them out at all.

The train station used to be far more helpful when it was manned. It meant less anti social behaviour on the platform, help to work out which journeys would be cheaper/take less time when going long distance and jobs for humans.

Tech may create jobs for some but it also takes away a hell of a lot. Where are all these future jobs going to come from when we make self learning and probably self repairing systems in the tech field?

I work in care and it is of course an app. I walk around with so many people's personal data in my device. The company doesn't provide a separate work phone either, in fact my current phone may not support the new system they are going on to. I will not buy a new phone until this one conks out.

Hi OP,

Hope you don't mind us popping our head round the door to let you know that Josh MacAlister MP has written for us about his Bill on safer smart phone/social media use for kids - and he's keen to hear from Mumsnetters about the measures he's proposed. You can read his piece and share feedback here.

Thanks,
MNHQ

@chaosmaker I do find the app for my mum's caters really helpful. I can see the schedule, and the visit notes. In particular I can see when a visit is in progress so I know not to phone.

It does seem to be the things like Instagram and TicTok, plus large group chats that are the big issue for teens.