Primary school application help- I don't know what to do!

[billiegoat]

Can I ask your opinion on school application and what would you do - mumsnetters are so wise!

DH has ruled out one of our local schools, (the local catholic one) didn’t like it, that’s the only one I really liked in our catchment, the other one in catchment wasn’t awful but it felt very big and overwhelming and chaotic, it wouldn’t be the end of the world and it is a good school but we definitely have preferences ahead of it.

Both the schools we both like are in villages about 3 miles from us. They both have long wait lists each year and last year the last child offered a place lived much closer than we do which makes me feel like they’re wasted choices. They are both faith schools and we are not religious so that puts us further down the list.

The other we like is a town school about 2 miles from us but the last space offered last year was a sibling space and again they have a long wait list each year.

There are other schools the other side of our town that are good, and they don’t tend to have wait lists so we would potentially stand a chance with them if we viewed but it’s such a drive across town every day and means our child would potentially go off to secondary school alone. I haven’t viewed any of them and don’t have much time left.

Do you think we should just put our current top 3 and hope for the best and worst case scenario we get none of them and get offered our local catchment school (or would they potentially allocate us another completely random school?!)

We are lucky in that probably 80% of schools around us are 'Good' so I don't think it's going to be horrendous whatever happens, but I don't want to waste my choices.

I don’t know what to do 😫

I think your husband needs to educate himself and put down one that you will get into

@cansu to be fair his thoughts are very valid and I didn't really like it either compared to other schools we've seen.

Neither of the ones in our catchment we liked compared to others out of catchment.

I guess thats part of my question. Is it a good idea to put one catchment school down even if we didn't like them to save us being randomly allocated a school that we haven't even viewed/is nowhere near us or would that not happen?

I would put the big school first and then the 2 across town as 2nd and 3rd

Thanks @Poppasocks can I ask why?

Just cos you think we'd stand a better chance?

Yes you will be given a random school (the next nearest one that has a space) if you are not eligible for any of the ones you put down.

or would they potentially allocate us another completely random school?!

Yes, they might well.

If enough people put your catchment school as a choice and you don't, it will be full and you'll get a random left over which could be anywhere.

Ok thank you,

That's really good to know.

This is such a difficult decision

Yes it makes total sense to put one of your most local as first :) especially if this is your first born without a sibling priority, sometimes the big schools can surprise you!

Good luck though! I remember the worry when my eldest started... was being told stories of how you pretty much had to live on the same road as one school in order to get in!

Unless your catchment schools are undersubscribed, I'd put down your two top choices followed by an OK one that you are likely to get into.

In a similar-ish situation we put down 3 long shots knowing the schools close to us are always hugely undersubscribed, so we could do a late application to switch from terrible to not very good if we wanted, but it sounds like your catchment schools are more popular than ours were.

You can always go on the waiting lists for others later on.

Are your catchment schools undersubscribed, as in they always have spare places? You won't automatically get a place at your catchment school if you don't list it. If they are full (all spaces given to people who listed it) you will be allocated whatever school is left with places which is a risky game. I would put:

1. your favourite school
2. the village school you are most likely to get a place at, even if small
3. your catchment school

When you get a place, you can ask to go on waiting lists for more schools.

Also remember 'big and overwhelming' feels a lot for a 4yo, but might be better for an 11yo, where 'small and cosy' might have become 'stifling and restricted'. Big schools have many benefits!

But OP doesn’t want the big school? Surely she should put the two out of catchment ones first on the off chance she does get a place, but then one of the catchment ones in 3 as her fallback option?

I'm curious about the big, overwhelming and chaotic. Can you put into words what it was made you feel like that. EYFS is supposed to be stand alone - have its own play area etc so the school they encounter is less big iyswim. Have you seen them at same time of day?

You can't game it. The criteria on the council doc should be very clear. And it always comes down to distance!

If you put three schools you will most likely not be allocated (assuming you get three choices) then you will be allocated a place at the closest school with a place.

you need at least one realistic choice in there

Do this. Although it sounds really unlikely you’ll get the village schools.

@PicaK

Our catchment school that felt overwhelming had 3 x classes for each year group.

We caught them at break time. So that's 60+ kids in a play area. It was a cold day, some of them not much older than my son were running around in t shirts and no one had told them to put a jumper on (is this normal?). One child fell over and was upset and no one noticed. Plenty of staff around but they have a high percentage of special needs so mainly busy dealing with those children.

Inside the school it felt messy. Stepping over bags and coats. I noticed pretty bad behaviour and the kids in the older years seemed gobby. A stark difference to the village schools where all the students were polite and tbh delightful.

The deputy head showed us around. She seemed disorganised and to be honest not very professional. Shame we didn't meet the head as heard good things.

Most of our neighbours kids go to this school and they all really like it, and it does have a pretty good reputation.

Both DH and I went to village primaries so this may be influencing our decision.

They are a good school with a good reputation but for me it wasn't as nice as the village schools.

Big schools aren't that bad! My DC both went to a 4 form entry primary school. I was a bit worried about the size but it's all managed carefully.by the school - staggered lunchtimes,.separate break areas etc.. And it's fantastic for secondary school because the secondary is half full of the children from the large primary, so our DC knows a lot.of children! and they've had practice in a large school.so not too overwhelmed when starting an 8- form.entry.secomdary!!

If you don't put the big school.down you.might not get a place anywhere locally...

If your DC start at the school and don't like it, you can apply for in-year transfer ...

Dont be swayed by stuff like kids without coats /jumpers on. Huge numbers of primary kids run hot and have to be wrangled into a jumper or coat and yours will probably be one of them in a few years. They were running around, of course they are warm 😁

You do have to remember they arent little babies and toddlers anymore at school and won't be treated as such, and rightly so.

But you don’t live near the village schools and from what you have said given you have discounted the catholic school it is the school you are likely to get

if you don’t put it down then yes they can randomly allocate (although are I suspect likely to allocate this one) and if they did another that is far away you could appeal based on distance but the school you would then be given is the one you describe

by all means put the village schools down (you should have 6 choices) but you have to put this one in at the bottom as a choice and accept the likelihood is you will get it

And maybe go back for.a.secomd.visit and ask to.speak with the head. When I looked round our current school I went on a bad day when a few things were out of kilter. Not a great 1st impression. But honestly now my youngest is year 6 and older ones in secondary, I can say it's been a brilliant school for my DC. I love all the teachers who r brilliant, my DCs formed lovely friendships and I've had no worries or concerns at all...

Main principles:
You don't get a "choice" you get a "preference" and it's important to remember that.
The "length" of a waiting list is usually irrelevant because it's never a "queue". The people hoping for a place in the second round of allocations are on the list in order of distance and the closest person will be offered any leftover space even if they joined the list more recently.
It's always correct to use your genuine order of preference on your list, you never need to put a less-preferred school higher on the list than a more-preferred school for strategic reasons. Schools are not allowed to use the information of whether they are on your list 1st/2nd/3rd as a decision criterion.
If there is a nearby school which you'd definitely get in to and is at all tolerable it is sensible to put it on your list in last place. If you use all your list spaces for schools you have a low chance of getting, and you don't qualify for any of them, the LA will assign all the school places to all other on-time applications in the area and will then assign you a place at your closest undersubscribed school. This could be a school that is significantly less good than the closer one that you didn't put on your list.
It is important to accept the offer you are given. If you decline it then the LA has no responsibility to give you a different place. You can accept the offer while still asking to be on the waiting list for any school that would be better.
For Reception places there is usually very little point in appealing, unless you have evidence that they made a mistake or there are overwhelming additional reasons to need an exceptional place. Infant Class Size appeals usually fail.

I thunk you can put down a couple of your favourite schools, but be prepared that you won't get them. At least you can feel you tried.

One of your schools has to he realistic. Agree about the chaos and coats stuff - totally normal for primary school age.

As someone who has spent the last 5 years doing a school run that requires a drive (after 5+ years of no drive), try to go local, unless the school is really bad. The one thing I've learned from my 2 is that scores don't matter with primary schools, your goal is for them to grow up in a nurturing environment that grows their confidence, that should be the focus, and chances are one of your local schools will manage that just fine. It's the secondary school you want to be ambitious and stretching, and they'll be older to manage a longer school run then.

I think it can be so easy to underestimate the value of going to the ‘local school’, especially primary. So many elements of the whole school and friends experience are harder when you throw in extra travel. So I would always recommend making sure you’ve got a reasonably close by school that you’ve got a realistic chance of being offered a place at on your list (sure alongside more outside chances) to avoid the list of being allocated a note choice if you’re unsuccessful with your preferences.

Do this. The "banker" school at the end to not end up across town in a even larger school.

I would likely not go for the village schools as you are unlikely to get in. However the school with sibling criteria only last year. What was it the year before? Could it be a fluke sibling heavy year?