Teacher telling 7yo that Father Christmas not real

[Peaceandquietandacuppa]

Is it reasonable for a RE teacher to tell 7 year olds that Father Christmas isn’t real?

My 7 year old DS has just told me that his RE teacher told the class Father Christmas “isn’t real” today. He isn’t one to over-exaggerate. I asked if any of the kids prompted it by asking and he said no, she just said it.

If you think it’s unreasonable, would you say anything to the school?

YABU - teachers are fine to say FC is not real at the age of 7

YANBU - let the kids / parents decide if FC is real. Just don’t say anything!

That’s pretty creepy as well, when you think about.

You think that not lying to your child about FC means they're not a child? 🫣

Exactly. It wasn't his place. It's like walking into a church and telling everyone God isn't real.

It's not because a school isn't a place built to worship FC.

I would have been absolutely furious!

Not your child, not your decision to tell them that Santa doesn't exist. I don't give a flying f* (or reindeer!) whether you think 7, 8, 9, 10 or 11 is "too old" to believe - not your circus, not your monkeys! Stay in your own lane!

The irony of an RE teacher telling children definitively that Father Christmas doesn't exist whilst (I assume) teaching children about all the variations of sky fairies that grown adults believe in and start wars over without even questioning their existence is incredible! Why are children, quite rightly, being taught tolerance towards those who follow different religions, whilst also being told that a character who brings joy and who epitomises the innocence of childhood isn't real?! Ffs. If you don't believe in Santa, good for you. But whilst "Santa" may not exist in the form of one big jolly old man in a red suit, Santa DOES exist in the form of millions of parents across the globe who altruistically work their butts off to create magic for their children. I am fully supportive of people believing what they want to believe whether I share their ideology or not, but if they then start to poop all over other peoples' parade, that's where I draw the line!

The irony of you thinking all RE teachers tell children that their god is real. 🫣

I never said they teach children that "their" god is real. Their job is to teach children that some people believe this, some people believe that. This is how these people celebrate & worship, this is the story behind this religion. The teacher's job isn't to question or validate any religion or set of beliefs. If a child questions any of it being real, they should just answer that that is what people believe and it is their right to do so. Same should apply to Santa. Not their job to confirm or deny, simply pass the question back to the parents.

Folk here are outraged that teachers don't lie though.

Folk here are outraged that teachers don't lie though

No, people are surprised that a teacher (or any adult) doesn't understand that sometime a diplomatic approach is sometimes required in the interests of kindness.

It's not hard 🙄

I was at a family Christmas party yesterday and the adults appreciated that some children still believe. A quick whisper of confirmation and people knew to just be mindful of what they said in front of the younger children.

No, some folk really are outraged that a teacher didn't lie.

No, some folk really are outraged that a teacher didn't lie.

🙄

If you're the sort of person that thinks it's acceptable for a teacher to tell a 7 year old that Father Christmas isn't real ...,, just days BEFORE Christmas then I guess diplomacy isn't on your radar.

As many people have suggested, there are ways to handle this situation without ruining a child's Christmas or compromising your own beliefs.

No, a person asserting belief doesn't have to prove anything beyond a belief. So, I believe FC is real, is fine, but it cannot be proved. My belief does not equal knowledge.
I believe the distance to the Moon is c.239,000 miles. Provable mathematically. Knowledge.
Saddam Hussein was President of Iraq. Provable historically. Lots of photographic, written and legal evidence. Knowledge.
Fairies exist. Not provable. No evidence. A belief.

If I believe in FC and fairies I do not have to prove my belief, though I can discuss it.

If I believe in the distance to the Moon and the presidency of S. Hussein, I can (if asked) provide evidence to prove it.
There is no obligation in asserting a belief or giving a piece of knowledge to 'prove' it. Anyway, it is the nature of belief that it is unprovable.
If the listener does not agree about said belief/knowledge they must put forward their arguments and then the person asserting knowledge or belief can put forward their arguments. But a) a belief is by its nature unprovable and b) you cannot prove a negative in the context of a belief e.g. is there a God?
That said, a teacher of any subject who tells children of 7 or younger that FC doesn't exist/isn't real is cloth-eared. Don't do that. (Applies to ministers of religion, too.)
Now can we stop discussing epistemology?

Well! Father Christmas isn't real.

Nope to everything except your last question.

Are you deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote?

Are you deliberately misinterpreting what I wrote?

No.

Undeliberately misinterpreting then?

What's to misinterpret? It's ever so easy not to tell 7 year olds just before Christmas that FC doesn't exist. You either say, yes, he does, or something on the lines of you are not sure but know that other people believe in FC.
It's 7 year olds, they are not asking for a necessary and sufficient proof.

You're also misinterpreting the context of that particular duscussion. Moving on.

Undeliberately misinterpreting then?

There's nothing to misinterpret.

I'm just suggesting that there are different ways of handling a situation like this, ways that don't involve being a dick and ruining Christmas for kids.

Many people of this thread have also suggested a diplomatic approach rather than outright lie.

I haven't ever denied there are different ways, e.g. saying we all believe different things, but some pp are definitely annoyed that the teacher didn't definitively say that santa/FC is real. They weren't happy with 'some believe', they wanted a lie to be the teacher's only option.

I haven't ever denied there are different ways, e.g. saying we all believe different things, but some pp are definitely annoyed that the teacher didn't definitively say that santa/FC is real. They weren't happy with 'some believe', they wanted a lie to be the teacher's only option.

Some, but no means all. Which was the point I was making.
Most seem to appreciate that a diplomatic response is appropriate.

It's those who are 'honesty at all costs' who are more dogmatic.

It's the 'dishonesty at all costs' who are the issue.

It's the 'dishonesty at all costs' who are the issue.

Are there many of those?

Those of us that 'do' Father Christmas accept that at some point our children will either work it out or be told by other children.
That's fine.

The issue here is the adults who don't see why it's mean and inappropriate to purposefully tell a child that Father Christmas doesn't exist or that it's especially harsh to do that in the lead up to Christmas itself.

Just look at that poster who took her child to visit various Santa's just so they could go back into school and call a child and their parents liars! Are you saying that sort of behaviour is preferable to an adult being vague about the existence of Father Christmas?!

I think all people are asking for is consideration and kindness towards children.
Not too much to ask imo.