Page 16 | Teacher telling 7yo that Father Christmas not real

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 2024-12-11T22:33:46+00:00

Is it reasonable for a RE teacher to tell 7 year olds that Father Christmas isn’t real? My 7 year old DS has just told me that his RE teacher told the class Father Christmas “isn’t real” today. He isn’t one to over-exaggerate. I asked if any of the kids prompted it by asking and he said no, she just said it. If you think it’s unreasonable, would you say anything to the school? YABU - teachers are fine to say FC is not real at the age of 7 YANBU - let the kids / parents decide if FC is real. Just don’t say anything!

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 19:18

Downtherabbithole19 · 12/12/2024 19:08

I think this is the point we are all making, basic morals also extends to having some kindness and care to others, for example not deliberately telling young children that Santa isn't real because it suits your agender to portray yourself as some moral superior.

Have you not heard of saint Nicholas where the story of Santa comes from? Its not based on a lie. Much as the story of Jesus in the Bible, it began from some truth but again has then been adapted by story telling. It's actually the same basis. So while you can get on your moral high horse by the fact that children not adults believe in Santa, but can't seem to be upset by adults believing in a man with magical powers who lives in the sky is rather amusing. Maybe you should go into all the churches and preach about lying and morality.

Really? You are still trying to link religion which is a belief system to a planned lie? 😜

Shwish · 12/12/2024 19:20

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 19:18

Really? You are still trying to link religion which is a belief system to a planned lie? 😜

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Yes. Because they're bloody similar.

AyrshireTryer · 12/12/2024 19:24

Not sure why there is a need to lie about the existence of Father Christmas - it's always confused me.

Downtherabbithole19 · 12/12/2024 19:28

A belief system that is based off a lie, that was your moral point. So religion is still based off a lie just one that is used as control and to put in place fake rules and consequences. For someone who claims to be so intelligent it's baffling you can't see the connection and your weak argument. It also wasn't a planned lie, it came from history and an event from history, that was then changed into Santa clause. Much the same as god was. You could also say religion was a planned lie... Oh wait it was

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 19:30

Shwish · 12/12/2024 19:20

Yes. Because they're bloody similar.

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And there we have an admission that you haven't the critical analysis skills of my cat 😂🤦‍♀️🤣

ttcat37 · 12/12/2024 19:33

Startinganew32 · 12/12/2024 10:37

RE is teaching children ABOUT religion, not teaching religion TO children.

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So, the same thing then?

ELMhouse · 12/12/2024 19:34

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 18:57

No I am a young bright honest happy individual who is patiently explaining basic morals to those who are operating in a hypocritical stance.

The fact you are aligning a known lie with beliefs held by millions is so disrespectful to those who hold religious beliefs.

You really are so locked into your hypocrisy it's astounding.

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Well you sound like a treat! 😂

but it is fundamentally the same! God doesn’t exist in my opinion but I respect others opinions and beliefs! To me the belief in God is based on a nonsensical lie and some equally nonsensical rules.

However I don’t care if millions of people believe in a fictional creature in the sky and have done for thousands of years or if they still believe that Poseidon causes earthquakes. Both sound crazy to me but it doesn’t impact me! And as you well know the Santa Claus myth has been depicted through different story’s, poems and myths for many years. Just as Christmas has evolved so has Father Christmas/St Nick/Santa etc.

You know full well all people on this thread are saying is teach you kids to be tolerable of others! No more no less. No lies just tolerable of other traditions no matter what those traditions are.

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 19:51

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 18:11

You blatantly stated how those who don't lie are outliers! Exactly how in earth is that not discriminative in nature?

" No need to offer an opinion at all, surely? You don't need to fret about a 'lie'"
Yes we bloody do because of people like you putting pressure on for year olds to not be bloody 5 ,year olds ,,🤦‍♀️.

So yes that's the issue we chose honesty and we end up with the challenge as opposed to those lying, completely unfair.

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🤦‍♀️You don’t understand what outlier means, clearly. It refers to the numbers, the fact that the majority of children will believe in Father Christmas below a certain age and those whose parents have told them it’s not real will be a minority, with a different belief. There is no discrimination.

It’s simply that if you’re in the UK, in most areas, you’ve put your child in a position where they think something different to many of their cohort, and that’s going to have effects of one sort or another. No doubt you thought about that in advance and factored it into your decision on how to play things with your child, as this is such a big deal for you.

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 19:53

Downtherabbithole19 · 12/12/2024 17:30

I work in a school, and we all keep the magic alive for the children at school. I would be extremely upset if an adult told my 7 year old he wasn't real. They are only little for a short while and the excitement and magic is lovely to watch.

It's nothing about other adults lying to them it's about not being a total dick and saying it. There wasn't any need to. My kids don't believe anyone but they know not to ruin it for the younger one's, just human decency.

Agree.

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 19:56

Downtherabbithole19 · 12/12/2024 17:37

To be honest you're just the people I would tell my children to ignore and they are just trying to ruin it for everyone else. It wouldn't make them question it, so you crack on. But it's sad to take away something that's meant to bring joy for some weird moral superiority.

Also as a parent I would tell my child to not ruin it for other people because I'm a decent human being, just like I'd tell them not to discuss grown up topics with younger children such as sex.

I'm sure of an older child discussed something you deemed inappropriate you would be the first to complain, but hey I'm not going to tell my child to lie to appease you.

Also agree with this.

Jifmicroliquid · 12/12/2024 20:08

My friends 7 year old has apparently made noises that he is questioning the existence of FC. I guess kids in school talk.
It just feels sad to lose the magic so young. 7 is still so little and they deserve a couple more years of that amazing Christmassy feeling.

CaptainMyCaptain · 12/12/2024 20:08

Surelyitscoffeetime · 12/12/2024 16:56

My 38 year old DSIL has a non-white cultural background but was born and has always lived here. It was only last year that she realised that your average White British child believes Santa is real. I had to drag her into the kitchen before she put her foot in it in front of my 5 and 6 year olds. She thought he was “just a character like Mickey Mouse.”

I agree with her. (White British)

MrsSunshine2b · 12/12/2024 20:21

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 17:16

I did read your comments. It's not clear to me which assumptions you accuse me of making about you. If you would care to make that clear, I will address them. It's no good trying to bully me to answer your question, while refusing to answer mine.

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"I'm not quite sure why you feel so strongly. Do you have a need to 'put others right' on this? Does it benefit you to shout about the fact that Santa isn't real and make sure children who believe know this?"

Do not pretend those are genuine questions and you asking nicely if I go around shouting at children that Santa is not real.

You are not going to answer the question because you can't, without showing yourself to be a hypocrite.

AlwaysGinPlease · 12/12/2024 20:26

dizzydizzydizzy · 11/12/2024 22:38

Do 7yo children still believe in Father Christmas? I

Of course they bloody do! 🙄

I'd complain. Oh and yes, the irony 🤣

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 20:42

MrsSunshine2b · 12/12/2024 20:21

"I'm not quite sure why you feel so strongly. Do you have a need to 'put others right' on this? Does it benefit you to shout about the fact that Santa isn't real and make sure children who believe know this?"

Do not pretend those are genuine questions and you asking nicely if I go around shouting at children that Santa is not real.

You are not going to answer the question because you can't, without showing yourself to be a hypocrite.

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I asked those questions because I was a bit puzzled as to the intensity and anger in your responses and wanted to understand better why you were being like that. I wondered if you realised how you were coming across. Generally, when people feel 100% happy with their stance on something, they aren’t defensive when others disagree with them. It’s when a part of us is concerned the other person may have a point at some level that we get defensive.

As to your question, I really don’t care if you think me a hypocrite or call me one. You’re entitled to your opinion, for what it’s worth, and it won’t affect me.

I can’t actually remember your wording exactly, as it’s a few pages back now, but I think it was along the lines of it being unfair if children who don’t believe in Santa are told not to mention it, while kids who do believe are allowed to say so. Is that right? If so, I’m afraid I find it rather a silly question that doesn’t make logical sense. It sounds a bit like when my child gets exercised about things ‘not being fair’, rather than anything more.

Not all questions make sense both ways. A bit like not being able to prove a negative, when you can prove a positive. In this case, it can upset kids who believe in Santa to have the magic taken from them, whereas this doesn’t cut as deep for kids who don’t believe if they hear the opposing belief. So I stand by my view that it’s about being tolerant, decent and kind to the kids who still believe. Those are all qualities I seek to instill in my child and so I don’t see a problem in telling kids to keep it under their hat to be kind to their friends.

stichguru · 12/12/2024 20:43

I think it depends why/how it was said:

If it was "you're stupid to believe in Santa at 7" then that is horrible behaviour for a teacher.
If it was "actually Christmas is about Christ, not Santa" and the kids took that to mean Santa wasn't real, well yes, from an RE perspective, that's true and some of the kids nattering on about Santa being the meaning of Christmas, would have distracted from the lesson.
If it was like some kids maybe won't have Santa (because they don't do Christmas) and she had to explain how Santa wasn't a stuck up old git who didn't like kids who believe insert non-Christmas-celebrating religion, and neither were these stupid kids, and she got herself in a twist - bless her really.

Marblesbackagain · 12/12/2024 20:49

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 19:51

🤦‍♀️You don’t understand what outlier means, clearly. It refers to the numbers, the fact that the majority of children will believe in Father Christmas below a certain age and those whose parents have told them it’s not real will be a minority, with a different belief. There is no discrimination.

It’s simply that if you’re in the UK, in most areas, you’ve put your child in a position where they think something different to many of their cohort, and that’s going to have effects of one sort or another. No doubt you thought about that in advance and factored it into your decision on how to play things with your child, as this is such a big deal for you.

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I understand what outlier means. Your comments about othering were what I referred to. Amazing your inability to comprehend your own twisting your own words 🤣🤣

And thankfully in Ireland in a school that is multi denominational I am around individuals who don't go around with the teeth nashing to lie and have my child lie too. 🤦‍♀️

The idiotic comparison to religion is ignorant and ridiculously insulting to those who hold a faith. Alignment of a planned lie to what individuals hold as true belief is astounding.

MrsSunshine2b · 12/12/2024 21:19

BunfightBetty · 12/12/2024 20:42

I asked those questions because I was a bit puzzled as to the intensity and anger in your responses and wanted to understand better why you were being like that. I wondered if you realised how you were coming across. Generally, when people feel 100% happy with their stance on something, they aren’t defensive when others disagree with them. It’s when a part of us is concerned the other person may have a point at some level that we get defensive.

As to your question, I really don’t care if you think me a hypocrite or call me one. You’re entitled to your opinion, for what it’s worth, and it won’t affect me.

I can’t actually remember your wording exactly, as it’s a few pages back now, but I think it was along the lines of it being unfair if children who don’t believe in Santa are told not to mention it, while kids who do believe are allowed to say so. Is that right? If so, I’m afraid I find it rather a silly question that doesn’t make logical sense. It sounds a bit like when my child gets exercised about things ‘not being fair’, rather than anything more.

Not all questions make sense both ways. A bit like not being able to prove a negative, when you can prove a positive. In this case, it can upset kids who believe in Santa to have the magic taken from them, whereas this doesn’t cut as deep for kids who don’t believe if they hear the opposing belief. So I stand by my view that it’s about being tolerant, decent and kind to the kids who still believe. Those are all qualities I seek to instill in my child and so I don’t see a problem in telling kids to keep it under their hat to be kind to their friends.

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I'm not in the least bit angry or intense about it. I don't care what your kids believe and I don't care if it upsets you if my child believes something else. I won't be telling her to be quiet for your comfort.

You think that it's OK for your children to talk about their beliefs, but not other children unless those beliefs are the same as your children's, and anyone who thinks that that's a hypocritical stance is asking silly questions. It's OK for your child to be upset when their beliefs are contradicted, but not OK for another child to be upset in the same situation. Got it.

avaritablevampire · 12/12/2024 21:23

Wait, what? Santa's not real?
Eh? Then who's been filling my stocking for over half a century?!

Downtherabbithole19 · 12/12/2024 21:28

Whether you believe something doesn't hold it as truth. I'm just giving you facts if you choose to be offended over that matter that's up to you.

A basic research will tell you religion was created to creat obedience. And before you get all worked up, I was brought up within religion and even we were told they are "stories". Well I find it offensive that you are insulting my children's beliefs about Santa, they are created the same way so I can get equally offended.

Just because you believe in something doesn't give you the right to take away the beliefs of others. That includes children. So you can keep preaching your being offended. Both are made up men by historical event's.

MrsSunshine2b · 12/12/2024 21:47

Shwish · 12/12/2024 19:20

Yes. Because they're bloody similar.

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It doesn't if they are. It's perfectly fine for a child to say, "I believe in Jesus," and another child to say, "I don't, I think he's made up," and everyone to move on with their lives without anyone throwing a tantrum.

Shwish · 12/12/2024 22:42

MrsSunshine2b · 12/12/2024 21:47

It doesn't if they are. It's perfectly fine for a child to say, "I believe in Jesus," and another child to say, "I don't, I think he's made up," and everyone to move on with their lives without anyone throwing a tantrum.

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Yes I agree - were you quoting me to argue? I don't understand.

Nolegusta · 13/12/2024 06:01

Peaceandquietandacuppa · 12/12/2024 18:20

Of course I wouldn’t expect a child who doesn’t believe in Father Christmas to lie. My DS has loads of friends who say he’s not real. I WOULD expect an adult in a position such as teacher to be a bit more sensitive and respectful of the fact some people practice this cultural tradition.

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Teachers are to be sensitive to parents who lie? Just about santa, or generally?

user1496146479 · 13/12/2024 06:43

dizzydizzydizzy · 11/12/2024 22:38

Do 7yo children still believe in Father Christmas? I

Yes.

Shwish · 13/12/2024 06:51

Nolegusta · 13/12/2024 06:01

Teachers are to be sensitive to parents who lie? Just about santa, or generally?

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This is a ridiculous statement. Yes. Teachers should be sensitive to the very popular cultural myth of Santa or "lie" as you call it. Most young kids believe in it, in the same way that they should be sensitive to the cultural myths of religions. They don't need to lie obviously but they can avoid the question or just tell the truth in a "some people believe" way. In fact that is what any normal person would do.