to think home ed families are going to have to accept more oversight?

[DrZaraCarmichael]

To try to prevent more cases like Sara Sharif. Taken out of school - where teachers were raising concerns - and then apparently fell off the radar.

Yes children's services have to look long and hard at themselves but taking a child out of school, especially when there has been previous SS involvement, has to raise a whole field of red flags surely??

I can see how families who are home educating for the right reasons and who have nothing to hide will see this as intrusive and unnecessary. But something has to change, right?

@babybythesea With Sara neighbours were concerned and didn't report it. There have been many cases where schools/nurseries/families/health report but nothing or not enough gets done.

Being home ed is neither here nor there. When you look at high profile cases in the uk most of those children were in school or had other adults reporting concerns to social services. Look at star Hobson, Arthur labinjo, Daniel polka, Victoria climbie, little Peter, all in nursery or school or had other adults seeing them and reporting concerns to social services. I can think of two other cases but can't remember the names of the children where they were abused or murdered after a step parent came into their life.

On the rare occasions a child happens to be home ed people then say home ed kids need more oversight. The much more common denominator is as someone else said, step parents. But no one calls for more oversight of families with step parents despite this clearly posing a significantly higher risk? why not?

No it’s not weird. It’s a matter of privacy. We are supposed to be free people and shouldn’t need the government to check on if we are ‘doing it right’

It’s a small minority that abuse children so we shouldn’t make everyone have to agree to a government check. It’s intrusive and infantilising.

My kids go to school and have had their health visitor checks - but I understand people that don’t want them.

I agree.

I agree

People saying children in school can also be abused or the majority of children who are murdered are in school are either missing the point of failing to think logically.

The vast majority of children are in school, therefore you would expect the vast majority of abused children or child murders to be in school. To compare, you would need to look at percentages, not numbers.
I believe it's thought to be about 2% of children who are homeschooled. Therefore it should be about 2% of child murders in home should be homeschooled, or another way of putting it, 49 children in school for every one homeschooled.
Do people genuinely think this is the case?

And because there will be a minority of parents who withdraw their child from school precisely to hide the abuse, it does become a higher risk.

Exactly this. The government MUST put laws in place to stop this from happening. We cannot safeguard children who are out of education effectively. They have to be in school if there are any safeguarding concerns whatsoever.

That poor little girl. May she rest in peace.

Educational neglect though is much more common.

I’ve said this for years. There does need to he more oversight.

I know this is a different country but there was a case involving 6 adopted kids (2 sibling groups) in the US back in 2018.

Their adoptive parents - two women - committed murder suicide and drove them all off a cliff.

They had been “home educated” after one of their children reported the abuse to a teacher and one of the parents was convicted of something but didn’t face a custodial sentence.

A few years later they were all murdered. The teen children had missing teeth, and looked like 9 years olds as they were so underweight and under nourished. One of the kids had escaped to his neighbour a few weeks before begging for food.

Awful story which sticks in my mind to this day.

I believe Victoria Climbie was withdrawn from school to home educate.

I bet there's a big overlap between home educators and anti vaxxers.

@Kendodd and again multiple services had reported issues. The home ed isn't the issue. The fact no one did enough once the abuse was reported or concerns were raised is the issue

Also Arthur Labinjo was out of school when he died I think. He was meant to go back in June 2020 after that first lockdown but his parents made excuses.

Dylan Seabrook was also home educated in Wales. He died of scurvy and had not been seen by anyone in authority for 7 years.

This is a fair point. However it's clear the common denominator is step parents. As I said before, why is no one calling for oversight of families with a step parent?

Children in home education died or were abused because “the protective factor that school can offer was missing from their lives”, an independent review has found.

The Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel, which exists to conduct reviews of serious child safeguarding cases, has published a report about 27 referrals received between August 2020 and October 2021 about 41 children who were not in school.

Arthur wasn't home ed though that was due to covid. We didn't specifically see a particular increase of child abuse murders during covid? Which would indicate again it's not the being at home that's an issue, it's the step parenting and the fact ss don't do enough when it's reported. Because even though he was not at school grandparents reported concerns and bruising and school had noted concerns before covid hit.

Checking up on all step families would be impossible. Most "step parents" are never recorded as such, especially those in chaotic households. Some children have dozens of "step dads" every year. Plus the number of families with step parents or similar is enormous. I totally agree it is a big risk, but there's no way you could check in on every family with a step parent or similar.

Arthur's death may have been prevented had he been in school, rather than missing school due to lockdown. Sara's abuse may have been seen if she had been in school. Schools aren't there to check up on children and families, but they also kind of are. It's why schools were asked to prioritise vulnerable families in lockdown, over the actual teaching.

I don't know the ideal solution, but children who don't have contact with the outside world without their parent/guardian(s) are at higher risk of being hurt by their parent/guardian(s) than those who do. Horrible people do more than this to cover up their crimes.

I'm not against home ed, by the way. The vast majority of home ed parents are doing it out of love for their children, and do a great job. I'm sure in most cases, home ed is the best course of action for the child. But a very small minority can use it to hide horrific acts, so a small amount of oversight seems wise. It will never be as effective as school safeguarding though. Children share things with school staff because they know them well. They won't be as likely to share with a random person who pops round to check on them.

And how many thousands are abused whilst they are in school or even died. and the school and SS were aware and did nothing

I bet there are many many children who are HE and haven't been seen by any professional in years. I'm sure plenty of these children are fine, but others won't be and nobody will know because there is no mandatory visiting of these children. And this is exactly how many of the HE on this thread believe it should be.

Home Education was an issue for Sara because school must have been her safe place. Where she didn't feel scared. Where there were adults who were kind to her.

Whataboutery. You are basically saying because kids in school are abused, we should ignore the kids being HE who are abused.
School is a protective factor for many children who are abused.

I'm sure I read there was an increase in CA during covid lockouts?

Because ultimately they do not care about these children.

Sara's abuse may have been seen if she had been in school.

Sara’s abuse was seen by the school. And reported. Multiple times.

Her school did absolutely everything correct. Social services dropped the ball and let her go off the radar.

The number of reported incidents of children dying or being seriously harmed after suspected abuse or neglect rose by a quarter after England's first lockdown, figures indicate.