to think home ed families are going to have to accept more oversight?

[DrZaraCarmichael]

To try to prevent more cases like Sara Sharif. Taken out of school - where teachers were raising concerns - and then apparently fell off the radar.

Yes children's services have to look long and hard at themselves but taking a child out of school, especially when there has been previous SS involvement, has to raise a whole field of red flags surely??

I can see how families who are home educating for the right reasons and who have nothing to hide will see this as intrusive and unnecessary. But something has to change, right?

I am glad your child is safe. However surely you can see that unnecessary measures could result in home ed children who are vulnerable killing themselves.

Do you get safeguarding referral every time you take child to hospital? Or take baby to hospital specifically?
Child was sayimg it was accident and we had a video of the said accident, so easy to disprove.

The one they last attended, or a different school designated for such purpose

@Marriumph

Exactly this.

While numbers of children being HE are growing because of failures by the education system, especially in the case of those with SEND, the vast majority of children are still in formal education settings.

There are still cases of abuse, and it seems even with red flags of bunting proportion, and schools waving them regularly, SS and the family courts are not doing their jobs.

It used to be that certain demographics were considered especially high risk - poverty, addiction, alcoholism etc were all the obvious signs. Then it was accepted that "naice" people abuse their children too, which is true.

Most people in the former group aren't in a position to HE. More people in the latter are, but are more likely to be compliant and invested in their children's well-being (apart from the small number of psychopaths that fly under the radar, sadly).

I am not trying to be discriminatory here, I am going by the research I have explored and that has informed SS practise in the past.

Personally I believe that each case should be treated on an individual basis, regardless of demographic / class, whatever, yet the system is a blunt tool, and while boxes may be ticked, the professionals within it can be biased, subject to group think, under pressure, constrained by under funding etc etc. And there are a handful who are arrogant and like the power.

This case is an absolute shitshow of system failure. While yes, the ultimate blame lies with the killers, they were actually enabled by the system for years.

Now we have another division being solidly engineered between those who HE and those who don't. Both sides are defensive of their own position. The children are the focus in both camps, but simply saying HE - bad, must be heavily scrutinised, School - lesser of two evils so good, is over-looking the role of the courts and SS in this particular debacle.

If this is truly about the best interests of children, being failed by the system every which way, wouldn't a united front pointing the finger at the true contributers to this child's death be a better approach?

@DragonFly98 A suicidal child (and I have had one) should have some involvement with services like CAMHS, the GP etc. so oversight is already there and that oversight could protect your child from intrusive visits etc.

You still shouldn't be able to have an opt out by saying 'no one can engage with my family or my child because they could kill themselves' as this gives another way for abusive parents to hide children.

There are ways of protecting the different kind of vulnerabilities and these should all be put in place.

Again my child's risk of suicide doesn't negate the need to protect children like Sara who are even more vulnerable. Can you not see that?

So you're just pumping out random ideas from a place of total ignorance?

A suicidal child (and I have had one) should have some involvement with services like CAMHS, the GP etc. so oversight is already there and that oversight could protect your child from intrusive visits etc.

Hahaha, so funny!

Exactly, living in cloud cuckoo land!

My son tried to take his life; how much worse could that be? This was a matter of life or death for us. I could see the toll that one visit took on him; if I had allowed any more I do not think he would be here alive with me.

You're lucky cahms would help, they didn't find my daughter suitably talkative and discharged her.

Stuck1001 Could you please outline how the home ed overseer would have succeed in helping Sara when social services, school, foster care, relatives in the know, etc. all failed?

Yes and some children in school with very worrying situation at home.
Like Sara was for years and years.
If SS can't get it right for know at risk situations then why not?

Doesn't fill me in confidence that they won't cause more problems for children from school vbased trauma

Just few of many. And please send your vulnerable child to that.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c8jyzve1dlgo.amp

https://www.birkenhead.news/council-acted-immediately-after-concerns-about-bullying-at-life-wirral-school/

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/special-school-firm-settles-out-9326065.amp

All the other historic abuse cases too. At one point they were all thought to be 'safe' there.

Then the mainstream independent schools who take deposit at 1yo and you tell them that child is autistic just before start (diagnosed in August before school start). they cancel the place without even seeing child. Or those that you went to see with saud child who all said ow, he knows so much, took deposit and when autism declared on form call you (they always call) to say, actually it's not for him.
Or that local school can't accommodate because they don't have quiet space in the entire school (read, we don't want them here).
Or why can't sit still? You can only scribble! Said to 4yo. Then abused at school.
Or my friend who's child was non SEN.
He was put in the cupboard by teachers! Developed PTSD, ended up in tier 4 Cahms and almost died.

Please all, open your eyes! Schools are not all cosy heaven of happiness and safety.

And exactly why we don't want uneducated and unaware people interfering because they mistakenly think trauma from school is a red flag that parents don't have their children best interests at heart

funny that. They refuse to see anyone who hasn't actively attempted suicide. Child has severe anxiety? Nah, they are autistic, we don't have funding for autism!

Looking at it from another perspective- when the school asked questions about his daughters’ injuries, Sharif withdrew her from school and announced he would HE. Why? This was clearly to avoid scrutiny, nothing else. This would suggest there are vulnerabilities in the system which need rectification. Not that most HErs are anything other than devoted parents.

My daughter did actively attempt suicide and she still didn't get past triage. She didn't talk enough apparently.

Sorry to hear that. Shocking state of cahms.

Same here @Gherkintastic - we looked to CAMHS for help but they were beyond useless. We need to do more to support families like ours, the mental health toll is huge both for our young people and ourselves as parents/carers. Reading some of the comments on this thread, it just reinforces my experience that there is little understanding and compassion for our ND children and young people. It's incredibly upsetting.

Also delve into top of the iceberg that are failings of LA - that's those souls who take the time to write formal complaint and are tenacious enough to suffer the onslaught of SS referrals (often) when their failings are exposed.
One of them is mine.
And then people wonder why home ed is rising? I spent 3 years in administration nightmare, pretty much a full time job, while my son was without education. Much, much easier and quicker to home ed all three!

You are talking about the vulnerable kids here (SEN). Delay after delay of basic education rights. But guess what? They get slap on the wrist and carry on.
Surrey LA has over 700 complaints and loses pretty much all of them.

www.lgo.org.uk/Decisions/SearchResults?t=0&fd=0001-01-01&td=2024-12-13&dc=c%2Bnu%2Bu%2B&aname=Surrey&sortOrder=descending

Absolutely, I think with a little care, responsiveness and flexibility from the school my daughter she never would have become mentally ill. The more our children's needs are ignored the more their problems escalate. The problem is we no longer trust the state not to endanger our children. I also don't think this HE overseer people want is going to have the desired effect of saving children, given what occurred in Sara's case the problems run way way deeper than lack of oversight for HE. If I thought this oversight would be done well and sensitively I would be fine with it, but I don't and I think it will further endanger children like ours.

I can see where OP is coming from. Poor Sara was thriving in school. It was her only respite from the shit going on at home. Social Services should have seen there was more red flags than a communist party meeting. Certainly those families like Sara's should be checked more frequently if the child is pulled from school.

One thing I noticed (as a Woking resident, so same place as S)..
Oversight of babies and under 5s over the years.
My first born 2013 (same as S).. we had Sure Start, we had HV checks at 1yo and 2 yo.
By the time my last one came in 2018, all of those had dissapeared. In fact I remember being discharged from HV service at 10 days old or a few weeks old with the words.. 'Here is our number, we cover whole of Surrey, so basically you can try to call, but we don't have resources' was the jist.
I'm sure those checks saved a few from being hurt etc.
Various playgroups dissapeared too, lots less SAHM, compared pre-covid. It feels like either all babies are in nurseries from very young age or mostly at home.
What I'm trying to say is that the cohesiveness seems to have dissapeared from society. Everything is so insular.

The system should already be protecting children like Sara. The system doesn't work. The system SS etc is underfunded and overstretched.

No amount of monitoring home ed would have helped Sara.

A properly funded system would save lives and help children. Children from all over the UK that need help( in school and home educated)

Pointing the finger and blaming home ed when home ed had nothing to do with why Sara was killed is wrong

@Peonies007 I think the disappearance of lots of small local charity activities is a major issue. These have disappeared at a faster rate from disadvantaged areas as they on grants - the people using them can not afford the real cost. In my area there used to be free or very cheap parent and toddler groups, baby massage courses, HV outreach sessions to communities with a higher risk profile, parenting courses anyone could access, an SEN charity run centre. These have mainly disappeared now. I think they were crucial in helping some families who were on the edge, cope enough to carry on okay.