How to know a boundary is acceptable? And any good books on this?

[Jtttttt]

My boundaries are terrible. Truly. When I try to have them it causes me huge stress as I then worry I am being unreasonable or I am hurting someone or I will regret it etc etc. I always feel my boundaries are selfish.

I don’t really understand how to say no and be ok with that. I lot of this is to do with my parents when they expect me to be free on particular days etc or expect me to answer my phone almost immediately. Or with work I will worry if I haven’t come across as nicely as I think I should etc. I really panic. Any advice?

Struggle with similar OP so no fantastic advice here.. except to say one thing I'm thinking is that our boundaries are always going to seem selfish to people who don't want us to have any, and I think part of growth and self improvement is getting used to them thinking you're selfish (and not caring).

The simple truth is that any boundary is acceptable. It doesn't have to be rational, nice, selfless... Any boundary you set is fine.
It also doesn't particularly matter how anyone feels about your boundaries. It's not your job to manage someone else's emotions.
When you say no, it's quite common to feel guilty. But remember, that you are not saying no to the person. You are saying no to a request. And sometimes you will have to sit with uncomfortable feelings when you start saying no but it will quickly subside.
What do your parents actually do/say if you don't pick up the phone right away?

Your boundaries are selfish. That’s the point of them. You need to get comfortable with that first.

No one else is going to put you first, that’s your job. Everyone else is out there putting themselves first - if they weren’t you wouldn’t need to enforce any boundaries.

But I’m probably the wrong person to ask as I have absolutely no issue saying no or seeming selfish is something doesn’t work for me. I think of it as putting my own oxygen mask on first - if I burn out then no one gets any help from me. If I give help where I can and want to, then they’re at least getting some level of support. If it’s not enough then they need to look elsewhere as I don’t exist to be the solution to other people’s problems.

HI OP

Sorry for quoting the whole thread but unfortunately I can relate to this SO SO much. I think it’s because when I was younger, my mum called me ‘spoilt’ and ‘selfish’ when I wasn’t at all - if anything the opposite - I was the only child of an abusive alcoholic mother wit no one to witness her shit behaviour towards me.

This ‘people pleasing’ thing - it’s very hard to deal with, isn’t it ?

However - a month ago I had a very minor RTA - which was my fault and I admitted it.
Lady wanted taxi fare and I said “

@can’t you the bus - it’s cheaper (u stated how much) and I will add something on top for the inconvenience I know I’ve caused”

now I’d have NEVER challenged something like this before for fear of being called rude, selfish etc etc etc … so I am making progress!!

as it happened - the lady was very very reasonable - she said she couldn’t catch public transport due to health conditions but she totally understood me asking the question. So I paid the taxi fare but I was proud of myself for having the guts to challenge it !!

if this helps OP - ‘selfish’ behaviour isn’t having boundaries. Selfish to me is a positive ‘act’ of inconveniencing someone - but in addition - not really caring that you’re doing it / - like blocking a road with your car when you quickly call at someone’s house leaving people behind you to get past you - when you could’ve just easily driven a little further down and pulled in so you don’t block the road !

Obviously it’s fine to block a road in an emergency etc etc the main thing is inconveniencing someone - but not caring that you’re doing it - that’s selfish

Sorry for typos !!

Boundaries are fine but they aren't an excuse. If you have a commitment that will land someone else with a ton of your work or problems saying " these are my boundaries sorry" is going to have real life consequences. If you don't answer the phone to your elderly parents, on purpose, you have to accept that one time it's going to be a request for urgent help.

Boundaries are about protecting yourself - nothing selfish about that.

I think many people, women In particular, struggle with saying no and enforcing boundaries. I have found saying no has got easier as I have got older. It feels uncomfortable at first, but you feel so much better afterwards.

our boundaries are always going to seem selfish to people who don't want us to have any

This, with bells on.

Saying no to some people is just not worth it , especially in the workplace. To them the word no is a personal attack and insult. The crap and fallout is not worth it .

This is the thing - I can relate to this totally

why do you think saying no feels so uncomfortable?

Omg yes!!!!!!!!!!

Girls and women are conditioned to be nice and think of other people's feelings. That means it's hard to put boundaries in place without worrying we are being selfish or that someone will be upset or think bad of us.
We need to learn to uncouple ourselves from our over sensitivity of worrying what others will think if we say no or apply a boundary.
It's ok to piss people off sometimes. We can't please all the people all the time.
I had to learn this in the world of work. I realised the way I and other women at work were, in relation to advocating for ourselves or being assertive, was very different to how the the men at work behaved. I worked on taking on the way of thinking that if it was ok for the men to be assertive and say no, it was ok for me too. As I started changing my behaviour my anxiety calmed as I realised that nothing bad happened if I stuck up for myself and over time people respected me more also.
We have to unlearn excessive niceness.

I mean, we can still be nice but it's ok to say no, also

That’s a good question. I think it has something to do with being a people-pleaser, wanting to be liked and being polite (at the expense of your own boundaries).

Totally agree

What didn’t help me was that my mum used to have huge drunken tantrums when she found a situation difficult to cope with

Thank you

that’s the thing - in my experience - people pleasing can sadly make one vulnerable to humiliation and abuse

It's always worth it. I have a colleague who very early on tried to pull rank and send me emails with actions that have absolutely nothing to do with my role. And every time I answered politely that what she is asking me to do are tasks which are handled by people three pay grades below me and I am a little confused as to why I was included in the mail chain.
I don't know if there was any fallout or not but, if there was, it was probably handled by our manager without me ever needing to be involved. The requests stopped and everyone is happy. I don't know if the colleagues is happy, mind you but I also don't care. What I care about is having work-life balance and actually being responsible for job I am paid to do.

You can only put boundaries in place with the best information you have in terms of your needs and what is appropriate/necessary. People who trample bondaries will find ANY boundary a problem so you can ignore those anyway. People who respect boundaries may choose whether or not they're okay with maintaining the relationship with you with those boundaries or not - that's okay too. everyone has free will.

But it's completely okay to say that "I am not goign to twist myself into knots all the time for this person or that person"

It sounds like you worry about what other people will think if you try to impose any boundaries so you end up sacrificing your needs in exchange for other people's good opinion of you.

This may work sometimes but it gives other people power over your self esteem and can lead to resentment on your part. If you don't have your own boundaries then it can be very difficult to respect other peoples.

You might find CoDA helpful.

https://codauk.org/

It takes practice to become comfortable with saying no, most of us try to be kind and helpful to others but that shouldn't be at your own expense.

Natalie Lue is really good on boundaries, so her book 'The Joy of Saying No' would probably really help you.

Her website also has excellent podcasts and articles about boundaries too:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/?s=boundaries