bad life choice. what next?

[cato40]

posting here for traffic

Suggestions to find the courage to get out of this situation
Hello mumsnetters, I am writing here because I am in need of help by people that are not emotionally involved and a bit different perspective could help me see and think about this situation differently.

I am Italian and ex husband from SE Asia, 2 kids 8 and 11. We lived all our married life in the UK and have British passports, he had an affair for the last 5 years of our marriage and we divorced. He suggested I went back to my country with the kids so he could leave the UK to move to the States where the OW is. Since his affair he has lost interest in the kids and only Disney-dad them and pays maintenance.

He said he would have left the UK to be with OW so if I stayed, I would have been alone. We have no family and a few friends in the UK, but not the kind of friendship you can rely on when a child is sick. I thought moving back to Italy was the best option although I left as a student and spent all my adult life in the UK.

Me and kids have been in northern Italy 4 months now and it is tough. We live with my mum brother and his wife (who are buying their own place that will be ready in a few months) in my mum’s flat.

My work is good but it is a 12 months contract and very far from home. There are no jobs where I am living and remote work here is rare.

Schools here are a downgrade from British schools and kids miss their friends, plus learning in a different language is hard, learning is mainly memorising facts. I can’t move to a different area because the school system requires the help of extended family. As a single parent I cannot work and send children to school without the help of my extended family and with my Italian salary I cannot afford paid childcare. Dad is paying maintenance but he will likely stop when he moved with OW, like many other useless dads.

My mum is doing her best but she is old and struggling, the load of helping me is more than we all thought it would be and we are learning the hard way (I underestimated how long I would be away for work due to failing train system). My mum gets very angry on the small things. She always did but I thought better be with my family than alone in the UK or with the exH who does not really care about his kids.

Brother and wife do help a lot with the logistics but are not very sensitive to the kids’ emotional needs. Called my kids manipulator, snob and brats because they complained about the change in their lifestyle from a beautiful part of London to an overcrowded flat in Lombardy and going to quite unpleasant schools. They are of the mentality that as long as you have a roof on the head and food on the table you should be happy. Very old school.

Neither me or my brother can find anywhere to rent because of overtourism. It is a real problem.

Kids are not very happy. I see less of them because of work, dad every few months and calls them twice a week. We live in a cramped place and they miss the UK their friends etc. my eldest said she prefers to be called a brat by her dad than her uncle/auntie and wants to go back (she would have gone to a very good secondary school very close to our old place).

Whilst I see myself living well here once the house in the UK is sold, I can see it will be hard for the kids, in the short terms whilst I depend on family for wraparound care and in the future given the scarce work opportunities.
I think that for the kids would be best to go back whilst we still have our old place and a cheap mortgage but I am terrified at the idea of managing by myself, Ex H is unreliable and I know that if I delay the house sale he will retaliate. I see redundancies everywhere in the UK and as a non-British born middle aged woman it is harder from me to find a job, I am scared of coming back to our old place and not finding work or even places in the kids’ old schools. It is such a risk and I would not be able to come back if it didn’t work.
Everyone is unhappy (except exH, but he is one of those kissed by luck and always gets what he wants), I like it here but it is not right for the kids, ExH said that if me and my family can’t cope here, he’ll take the kids and raise them with the OW as they will have such a good life in the US. I was upset when he first said that and it sounded like a threat. But since my kids’ quality of life has plunged so badly I wonder whether I should:

1. Risk it. go back to the UK, find a job and try everything to give the kids good schooling and a decent life, if I fail let him take care of them wherever he goes. thsi way i[ll take these 4 months asa blip.

2. Suck it up. Stay here and do my best until the kids grow up and move somewhere else. by then their dad[s romance will have cooled down and they will be ready to live closer to him after i will have struggled all these years and they will probably resent me for this move.

I feel trapped, too scared to stay too scared to go. I love my family and appreciate their help but living in the UK meant that I did not need their help as schools have after school clubs etc. trains work and schools are closer to where people live (not like 10/15km). I don’t agree with how sometimes my kids are treated here but because of respect and me depending on family I cannot say anything. Kids see this and think I am a door mat (I am).

Please help!

People are being a bit tough on you about your family - you are reliant on them in many practical ways.

OP, start applying for UK jobs now. If you find one which is partially remote you could even start before you move back. Is your London house rented out or empty?

People have asked where you'd like to live in the UK - do you have any thoughts?

Find a UK job first before anything else.

Option 1, give it a go while you still can.

Has the financial settlement on your divorce been finalised, or is there a chance you and DC could stay in your old home? If it must be sold, will it give you a deposit on a new place - maybe not in London?

You can get this working, but you need to be a bit more hard-headed. Think money. Make a shortlist of places it would be practical to live & work, taking costs & opportunities into account. Get a job offer - or even better, as a PP says, if you can get one to start remotely.

I'm another one who thinks it would be far easier on you AND your kids if you came back to the UK. You say you lived here all your married life OP, but how long actually was that?

Are the children fluent in Italian? Do they know your Italian family well? If the answer to both of these questions is no, then you can totally understand why they're struggling to settle in, especially if you're away from home a lot with work. Then on top of (possibly) living with virtual strangers, they're having to get used to a whole different school system, so all in all it sounds like they're having to learn new EVERYTHING!! If that's the case, no matter how adaptable kids can be, that really is a whole lot to ask of them.

So I think in your shoes, I would sit down with the children, explain to them that you are thinking of returning to the UK, because you know how unhappy they are, but if you are to do this, they MUST understand that it's unlikely you'll be able to return to the old area, and school, and so they still might have a lot of new things to adjust to, BUT at least they will understand what is going on around them, which should make things a lot easier. Give them a few days to take all this onboard, and then have another chat to see what they think, you may find that when they realise things won't ever go back to being exactly the same, that they decide they would prefer to stick it out where they are. However, if they still want to come back, then explain it may take time to organise, but that you will get stuck in to applying for new jobs a.s.a.p. and will do your very best to make things happen for them, so that you can all be happy again.

Above all OP, know that YOU CAN DO THIS!! Thousands of women raise children alone in the UK, and there is support if you need it. It won't be easy, but there's always support and advice to be had on MN.

Has your divorce been sorted?

Do you know what percentage you are getting when the house sells? Are you getting your fair share of the pensions, investments, property, ets you both have?

Remember it isn’t up to him how much CM he is paying. He needs to remember that whilst the UK might be somewhat lax on compelling fathers to pay CM. In the US the laws are very strict

Normally I would advise people to not come to the UK
But in this case I think you need to come back

I wouldn’t be encouraging the relationship between your children and their father (wouldn’t be facilitating any meetings outside the court approved time)

He could decide to go to the US and take the dc with him or decide he will remain in the UK and the house won’t be sold as he will move his mistress in (Are you sure he hasn’t done that already) and live there with his dc In both these scenarios he will be claiming CM off you.

Pretty sure he encouraged you to leave and go to live in Italy because it allowed him full reign of the house

I would move back into the family home asap. Have you any savings to help you in the meantime or can you apply for jobs in the area, even if it means the jobs don’t pay well or are only very part time and you have to supplement your income with gig type work.

Once dc get on an even keel then you can think clearer and put in place things that will make life much easier

Staying in Italy should have been a good move but your family are horrible and I wouldn’t be surprised that you are getting a shortened version of what is being said to your dc whilst you work

It could go somewhere in explaining why your dc are so very unhappy and want to return to the Uk

Better to have no help than the help you are getting which appears to come with helpings of anxiety and trauma on everyone in what is already a stressful situation

As a bit of light relief you could also look at Astrocartography to find the best place for you and dc to live
Must admit to finding it somewhat fascinating looking back on places I have lived and how closely my experiences matched the forecast of living in that area
Wish I had found it sooner

Thank you all.
The house is empty and OW would never move to the UK as she has children of her own she would not leave.
We still have a mortgage with low interest rate that will go up in one year time. We finished with divorce paper where I get 65% equity of the house ( I had more ) . The idea was that I was going to buy a place outright here to make up for the lower salary. In the UK if I maxed out on a mortgage I would be in a similar position or a bit worse off financially. The only way to make things work here is to find a private school with after school clubs. I have been looking for jobs but there is hardly anything that let's you work from home more than twice a week.
Re family they have been horrible on DD birthday, but they do so much to help and often play with the kids. They are not used to be with kids and generally favour a stricter education than I do. They love the kids but in their own way

The only way to make things work here is to find a private school with after school clubs and that would work.. of this is the life you want.. which indont think it is? I've been thinking of you over the weekend. How Id love to be at 4m in, I'd go back as soon as I could.. Don't live with the regret.
Make a detailed list of pros and cons if you're really not sure. That might help.

@mikado1 I genuinely don't know! I wonder if the kids will get used to being here and it would be easier if I could buy a place here. We could visit so many places here (homework permitting) and the kidscwill become bilingual, decide where to go when they grow up and likely move somewhere else.
In the UK I'd only stay in the area we used to live, great schools and good community. I don't know of any other place in the UK and don't want to move to a place where I know no one. It will mean living in a very small flat and having a mortgage till I retire but at least it would be easier in the kids and they will see more of their dad until he is in the UK. I'd stay here if it wasn't for the kids but I see how they are getting g a worse deal in terms of schools and opportunities cities when they grow up if we stay here.

I'm not a fan of seeking kids' advice on big decisions, but they do warrant a voice. Could you lay it our for them, as you have here, and give them some time to think about it & ask further questions?

If I can trust Rightmove's listings, prices around Milan and Como look very reasonable by UK standards! No idea how mortgages work in Italy, though.

@Garlicwest same re involving kids. They certainly wish to go back but don't like the idea of moving to a 2 bedroom flat. I explained them that we moved to italy because long term I would not have been able to afford our family home. Separately their dad told them he would move to the US (poor kids).
Homes are more affordable compared to London for sure. I would buy outright and not with a mortgage as I am on a contract anyway. Market is very slow and there is little choice so it could take one year to find the right place unless I go with the first option. You can't buy and sell as often as people do in the UK due to tax and buying cost (estate agents charge a % of the sales value to the seller AND buyer!). So if I buy here it has to be the place for the next 10+ years.

I really would reconsider your thoughts around location if you moved back to the UK. You said you had a few friends but none who could be relied on with a sick child? That doesn’t sound like very strong ties to take you back to a community you’d have to buy a 2 bed flat with a mortgage till retirement?

Why not move more North. For example, £250k would buy you a 3 bed house with a garden in a good area near decent schools in the north west. Cities like Manchester, Liverpool and Preston all within easy reach offering good employment opportunities. The salaries are a little lower, but COL lower therefore relative.

You all sound unhappy, most of all your children. Fresh start with familiarity of the UK sounds preferable to what is essentially to them a foreign country with family members who on the face of this scenario seem unkind. So much upheaval for you children, are you concerned about their mental health?

I hope their Dad is very proud of himself. Tit.

@Pippa12 thank you for your insight. My eldest went to school in our area till year 6 and I know quite a few families. We are not close friends but did the whole play dates birthday parties etc. I think that if in need and if they could they may help but nothing like relying on family. I dread the idea of starting from scratch socially, I know I can't have everything but would rather stay here or live in a small place there where we came from and where kids have their friends and I know people in the area. Work-wise I have way more opportunities around London and ex is happy for us to stay in the old family home for another year. If I move the kids again I really would not want to move them again and yes their dad is a selfish idiot.

Yes I get that, your return needs to be to the same area.

Hi OP. It sounds like you have a huge decision which is a burden that you’re carrying by yourself right now.

i think the two Princesses upthread have made a lot of sense in their posts.

I hear what you say about the kids possibly being better off growing up in Italy, in a bilingual environment (in the EU), with the freedoms it affords for their adult lives. The way I see it, both options - staying in Italy / moving back to UK are going to be difficult. As your daughter has already pointed out, readjustment to a very different way of life in the same house is tough psychologically, however much adults try to smooth it over for them.

Adjusting to a new life in Italy knowing that it will be pretty permanent for at least the next 10 years will similarly be tough. But there will be learning and going through new experiences to adapt in both situations.

I can see the appeal of starting again somewhere without the baggage of the past. I think I could make new friends and find a new means of living more easily in a place which doesn’t know me, as I would find it harder to go back to a community where the people would have known me in previous (different) circumstances… would I need to find a new group of single mum friends/ would I be at the receiving end of a lot of pity/ would I actually realise that my friends love me for who I am, and therefore fit right back in as someone they had missed dearly and would support? Which kind of person are you? Which kind of person is your child? Which kind of people are your community?

I think you’re a strong person for confronting this decision rather than sticking to what you've chosen. It takes at least a year to really see if Italy is the right place for the children- ideally you could rent a little place on your own so that you’re not under stress about disrupting the routines of your family. That could give you a much more realistic perspective about whether the 3 of you can thrive. It’s never easy to decide on a big move so I’d say spend some money to get the environment right for making that collective decision.

sorry for waffling on, I can feel some of what you’re feeling through your post, and wanted to acknowledge that all your thoughts are pretty valid and logical.

thank you @Extraticket . totally aware either options would be difficult in different ways. i thought of renting a place but because of being a touristy area I would not be able to afford it, and no one would rent their place to a single parent with kids on a contract job. Short term rentals are like hotel stays here.
I could not manage on my own here if I didn’t have family around. Grandparents raise children whilst parents work full time and see a lot less of their kids unless one parent stays at home.

My family and friends really want me to stay and I get they love me and want to protect me, but they do not have children, and get frustrated with me for not being happy with this set-up. I even signed up to counselling and the consellor tells me to prioritise what works for me an kids wil adapt. As a mum i stuggle to accept that my personal wellbeing is having such an impact on my kids wellbeing!

I think that if I go back and then struggle there will be a lot of ‘I told you so,’ if I stay and for some reason my mum can no longer help or my brother or sis-in-law won’t be able to help due to work I’ll resent them and blame myself for coming here. Funnily enough, the same people advising me to stay in the UK before coming here are the ones now telling me to stay. I am so confused and terrified of making the wrong choice again that I wonder whether I should just give up and let my ex raise the kids. At least he is a charmer that always gets what he wants and now living his best life whilst my quality of life is only going down since divorce and i can[t make my mind up.