Moving to spain

[virgo22]

does anyone else just think there must be more to life than what we have in the UK? We have a mortgage and love our home, but constantly sick of chasing our tails, hardly spending much time together as a family due to always working and needing to pay the bills probably be unhappy anyway.
my children are aged 3 and 7 months and I think I would love to create a better life for them by having a better lifestyle. Me and my partner would love to sell the house, move and start a fresh and start living our life. Life is so short and I feel like why not, when life is for living.

has anyone done this? I hate this rat race that we find ourselves in here.

Think that's a mere myth now that the cost of living is hammering hard in Spain now.
I don't live there but my mum has for twenty years so have spent many months a year there.

Each time I visit I'm floored by the prices in the supermarket.
It's easy to absorb if you're on UK wages but think you'd struggle more than you think on a local wage.

And personally I could not be doing with dealing with all the officialdom without near fluency in the language.

As for your children, fine when they are young, but in my experience there's not much for teens and the education is not so great.
Most people we know have moved back when their kids hit the teen years.

The only ones that thrive are those like my mum and her friends with a pension.

We were planning to retire early and head over but are having to seriously look again at our plans 😔

This sounds completely unrealistic. You basically want to spend all your equity and savings on living near a beach and not working properly. Never gonna happen, soz.

As far as I am aware, there in an unemployment crisis in Spain so you’d struggle to find work unless you are in a specialist field, and even then EU regulations may mean there are rules about hiring locally/EU residents first?

Also, post Brexit, you need a job/work permit in order to be allowed to move (both of you and especially with dependents travelling with), unless you have EU500,000 in equity, in which case you can buy a property for that amount and obtain residency and a work permit. The ‘golden visa’ granted if you buy a property for 500k is valid for 3 years, not permanent, so you’d need to look into the rules.

There is info on ‘Living in Spain’ on the gov.uk website and numerous sites advising UK citizens about emigrating.

As others have said, you will likely find it is the same old shit, just different location (plus too hot in the summer, frustrations with the language barrier, and fewer rights and protections than in the UK).

Our plan is to move to Spain. My parents have residency over there having moved several yrs ago and I visit frequently. Cost of living is exceptional comparatively. Additionally I find Spain very family focused, so a great move with children also.

I live in Spain and have done for a few years. It is hard now for Brits though there are options. The Golden Visa whereby you purchase a property (in cash) worth at least €500k is being withdrawn next year. There is still the NLV but they can be a bit weird about that - sometimes they let you use rental income sometimes they don't. I know people with NLVs who still work and earn money in other countries so who knows.

They have just started cracking down on the Digital Nomad Visa (DNV). I have a friend who applies for them on people's behalf and she's giving up as it's now too hard to get them through. I gather they are a little tired of people with them not necessarily paying tax in Spain!

I admit I love England and was happy living there but the sun here cheers me up no end. The bureaucracy is batshit mental but with some Spanish, Google translate and the help of the odd person you get through it. It is expensive though - food is pricey, taxes are high (not council tax or car tax, they're peanuts!) and petrol is expensive. Plus don't get me started on the price of cars... double that of the UK. I've met and made friends here of all nationalities, and most people I know here, from wherever they have come, because they have chosen to be here seem to love it. Most of the locals love it too and they're mostly friendly and are very good at helping you with your Spanish.

Schooling is hit and miss though so I'm glad I don't have kids as the international schools are expensive.

I know several NHS doctors who work remotely from here on DNVs which kind of amuses me, but they do go back to the UK periodically. I guess they do video consults.

I was there for 5 years, but I don't work, we retired early. It's cheaper all round In comparison to the sth east of the UK. Coffee was 1.50, fruit and veg and general shopping cheaper. Yes it's very hot in August but bearable on the coast. The hospitals are amazing, very efficient in a & e anyway.

We travel in Asia instead of Europe now.

Brexit was the worst result for the country.

Half Spanish here 👋🏻. Honestly, same shit, different country.

Just move to St Ives like every other fucker has done 👍

No matter where you move, there you are, same people with the same problems. Just a different view and different weather, and chances are more problems as you don't know how things work in a different country.

If you can sort out the relevant visas (no mean feat with Brexit) then why not. If I were younger with small children I'd be off like a shot. The grass might not be greener but at least you'll have tried it. I'd be inclined to rent first (and rent out your property here but, again, many pitfalls with that). If you like it, sell up in the Uk and don't look back.

I am selling my flat in Spain. The weather is lovely, people are friendly... that's where it ends.
Everything in Spain is done "manyana" i.e. never. My bank account is now suspended and for the last 6 months I cannot get a hold of my personal advisor. She told me in July she was going on holiday. She must have been eaten by a shark. No, I cannot submit documents electronically. It's just not done there. No, I cannot get a new personal advisor. No, they do not respond to emails or phone calls. No, the head office can't help either.
My NIE number needs to be transferred to a new surname. To do that I need to prove that I own property in Spain. The property is under my old surname. To change it on the register, I need to present to the town hall with a copy of my NIE stating my new surname... It's been an ongoing issue for 10 years because I cannot get off this bureaucratic Marry-Go-Round.
Just go on holiday, OP. It's really not worth it.

Spain faces drought constantly and the heat can be unbearable at times. Great for a holiday but not moved there. Many Spanish emigrate from Spain.

I think it's something that sounds great in theory but is hard going unless all the elements line up, money, housing, speaking the lingo to a reasonable level , working etc-

I think it works far better if you are older, have passive income and can work if needed from anywhere , can retain a base in UK anduse it essentially as long stay holiday home- I have friends late 60swho downscaled here in UK and go 4 times a year for 6 weeks at a time- this is fine within the limits as they space it out and they always manage to get great rents for those times , so they go all over. It costs them around £14,000 a year but they say it was more cost effective than buying somewhere in a fickle market , paying property taxes and maintaining it and retain the advantages of a UK home and have their business taxes here etc-

Did you really mean to use the word ‘ platonic’?

OP- If you are thinking of Spain, your income will now have to be a lot higher per person than it used to be. Research tax laws, especially inheritance and income tax, and health care, which is not free unless you are a state pensioner or contributing to the system by working. It is expensive getting medical insurance for existing conditions. It is not that easy to get a well paid job. Even state pensioners contribute towards the cost of medication, which used to be free. Although the weather is better, living there is not like being on holiday. Research, research, research!

I've lived in NE Spain for 20+ years. We are comfortable off pensioners. The life is pleasent, but we can afford to do want we want. The weather can be very hot in summer and quite cold in winter. You have little chance of getting a visa and the general beaurocravy is terrible. The health care is great, the weather is good, the food is great.......but don't do it!

My friend moved to Spain pre Brexit

Has a beautiful house, with pool, for the same price as a 2 bed semi.

Her and her husband have good jobs with an international company.
Their children were small when they moved but went to Spanish school and are fluent. However, she is having difficulty with the standard of the secondary school.

If you go to the real Spanish places you can often get a set 3 course meal for €15 with a drink, obviously wine is very cheap!

The quality of the food seems much nicer and they do have lots of family time at the beach etc. Late dinners and just seem so much more family orientated.

Where they live it's very safe, especially for the young teens. Kids "play out" and her children seem to be children for longer. No designer clothes and knife crime. In the summer the square is full of families, eating and drinking whilst the kids play .

I do think it would be much harder to move now. Wished we had done it years ago when the children were small!

What us DNV please?

@catza this reminds me so clearly of what living in Spain is like!

"My NIE number needs to be transferred to a new surname. To do that I need to prove that I own property in Spain. The property is under my old surname. To change it on the register, I need to present to the town hall with a copy of my NIE stating my new surname... It's been an ongoing issue for 10 years because I cannot get off this bureaucratic Marry-Go-Round."

I lived in Spain for two years, with children in a Spanish school. Everyone in Britain told me what a 'fantastic lifestyle ' I must have. Spain is fine but the bureaucracy was truly like something from a horrific Kafka story. I've just spent ages trying to write what it was like but I've deleted it because it's just awful thinking about it.

What about climate change? If things really do heat up, Spain will be on the front line. I'd go somewhere cool, like Canada or Sweden.

Italy is exactly the same.
I could go on for days. Getting married, changing our doctors (as we moved a mile down the road 🙄), cancelling a phone contact, even handing our notice in..the thought of any of it again brings me out in a cold sweat and we were pretty fluent.

But that's the thing surely. If you can't get equally well paid jobs in Spain then your dream lifestyle isn't going to just materialise. I know you're talking about living off the equity from your house, but for god's sake don't price yourself out of a home in the UK.

I live in Madrid. Absolutely love it. I have small kids and it's fantastic for them, sunshine 300+ days a year, always playing outside, good schools, very family-friendly culture with kids welcome just about everywhere. Gorgeous well-maintained parks and playgrounds, the city in general is clean, cared for, very safe. Last weekend I was wandering through Plaza de España watching my kids playing on a (free) giant wooden slide park, drinking a €2 coffee, with the sun shining, and I felt incredibly lucky to be here.

BUT - as pp have said, it's much harder to get visas now. We came pre-Brexit. The job market is challenging. Unless you have a very marketable skill, you need to speak Spanish to a good level or you'll be stuck with teaching assistant/ call centre roles that do not pay well at all. Renting is expensive and flats tend to be small. The bureaucracy is a nightmare, although made much easier if you speak good Spanish. I don't need a gestor, I do it all myself now. But if you hit a problem you will need to be incredibly persistent and patient to sort it out.

Salaries even in good jobs are considerably lower than U.K. although I think tax probably works out similar considering the equivalent of NI is largely paid by employers. That said, outside tourist zones, prices are much lower than in similar cities in UK. Coffee for a couple of euros, coffee and a tostada or tortilla for breakfast maybe €4-5, 3 course lunch for €15, fresh fruit and veg much much cheaper (and in season, MUCH tastier). It's true supermarkets are not as nice, and you can forget M&S style pre-prepared options. Biscuit aisles are a sad disappointment 😭 You cook more, or you eat out. In general though, I think salaries here do go further.

Ultimately everyone's experience is going to be different. I'd be bored on the coast, but then I wouldn't choose to live somewhere like that in the UK either. If I compare Madrid with pretty much any UK city I know well, it wins hands down. My kids are growing up bilingual. The mortgage on our apartment is 2.5% fixed for life. I can't even begin to imagine how much more expensive our life would be in the U.K.

As a veteran of several overseas moves, I definitely recommend renting your U.K. home and giving it a year to begin with. Your kids are young enough that you can risk it. But do your research first, and don't go without a work visa, no one will employ you. Happy to answer any questions if I can.

I think you might be correcting her without knowing all the meanings of the word platonic.

Do enlighten me. I only know of the normal dictionary meaning, so if it has a very obscure, different meaning, why would the poster use it
platonic /pləˈtɑːnɪk/ adjective
Britannica Dictionary definition of PLATONIC
: of, relating to, or having a close relationship in which there is no romance or sex
They had a platonic friendship, not a romantic one.
Our relationship was strictly platonic.
platonic love