97 Yr old Gran waiting 8 hours for an ambulance with a broken hip!

[LoveCherryTree]

My Gran, 97 years of age, given to this country in World War, paid her taxes and NI all her life. She fell today in her home at 12pm, she has a broken hip, my Father called 999 and it is now 8pm and still no ambulance.
She can’t go to the loo as she can’t get up, my Father who has Parkinson’s and my Uncle, who has throat cancer, both in their 70’s, sitting with her.
This country is broken beyond repair, I even tried to get a private ambulance and they said that it won’t make a difference because all the front line ambulances are sat at the hospital with patients inside because they can’t get them into the hospitals….I despair, so it’s better for my 97 year old Gran to be in agony and wet herself, I just can’t believe it! Anyone know a member of parliament I can talk to about this? I’m utterly disgusted!

Couldn't agree more. Social care is incredibly expensive to provide and carers' allowance isn't enough to make it viable for most people to give up work even if they were qualified (caring is a skill and deserves to be paid much more). It's going to cost us to sort it but these problems and the suffering they cause won't go away until we do.

Just in case it hasn't been said as soon as an elderly person falls and an ambulance has been called, send someone for incontinence sheets, even puppy pads or incontinence pads. All available at Tesco. At the very least, it allows the person to push the pad against themselves to urinate. They absolutely don't want to put off going to the loo because of embarrassment. Also go armed with pillows and blankets, warm drinks and painkillers unless contraindicated.
It definitely shouldn't have come to this, but it definitely has.
Hope your grandma gets some attention soon.

@user6476897654 user6476897654 · Today 22:01

I think the elderly would be better off being treated for most things at home -

You are right and most NHS trusts have a thing called 'hospital at home' see here for example

https://www.enherts-tr.nhs.uk/services/hospital-at-home/
https://www.oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/service_description/hospital-at-home/

and <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.uhdb.nhs.uk/outpatient-parenteral-antimicrobial-therapy-opat/&ved=2ahUKEwisxpPsgPuJAxVeX0EAHYGbIjQQFnoECDQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2kMmAJr4vOMoSEf9w2XLOb" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Outpatient Parenteral Antimicrobial Therapy (OPAT) which allows for IV antibiotics etc at home
https://www.kch.nhs.uk/services/services-a-to-z/outpatient-parenteral-antimicrobial-therapy-opat/
https://www.buckshealthcare.nhs.uk/pifs/hospital-at-home-opat-outpatient-parenteral-antimicrobial-therapy-service/

(if you google it is available in most NHS trusts ( a few examples above) but it's worth knowing that many GPs don't even know about it - this is all useful info if you have elderly relatives so worth noting as it may help you get them home more quickly)

HOWEVER the big problem is that for many elderly people the initial need arises as a result of an emergeny (a fall, heart attack, infection turning to sepsis) so that the INITIAL assessment has to be done urgently in a hospital - which then puts you into the lottery of ambulance response times, queues at A& E, bed availability.

It can help you get people home more quickly though if you have support /relatives/carers to help them.

We are in a big mess here. This thread makes me want to cry honestly.

Surely this is a deliberate misunderstanding?! There is nothing in the post to imply this attitude from the poster. She is factually correct - an 80 year old with a broken hip undoubtedly needs an ambulance. She is also undoubtedly able to survive longer without medical attention than a choking child or someone with an arterial bleed. The problem comes when she is made to wait too long, but that doesn't make the PP incorrect or guilty of saying what you've claimed she's saying.

We had near enough the same experience last year with our 95yr old grandad, he had fallen was unable to move, we had to find him a container to urinate in he was beside himself totally undignified and heartbreaking to be unable to access appropriate help when needed... I think our elderly deserve priory care especially when they have sacrificed so much of themselves for the country, we waited 4hrs, then managed ourselves to scoop him up in a bed sheet into a wheelchair and take him ourselves
Hope your gran is getting the best care now💐

Same here. Sign of weakness, much better to sit and rot in one spot with dignity.

My relative was in a home. It was a nursing home, but they didn’t seem to provide much nursing care - there was no one qualified to administer end of life drugs for example. The district nurse had to be called out to do that.
The Dr visited regularly. But still numerous hospital admissions that achieved little good and caused significant mental deterioration each time.
I think they called the ambulance because they were worried about being sued mostly, not what was best or even what my aunt wanted.

So you would have wanted your relative to have been bumped off to save them from death in a hospital.

All I can say is it's very easy to endorse assisted dying on behalf of someone else, too easy.

It happens every year when snow falls - frailer older people go out and have falls and end up in hospital the cold weather leads to heart attacks and strokes a few days later then the chest infections start. All lead to increased pressure on hospitals.
It affects this country more than many as the weather is more unpredictable.
And another thing - anyone who served in a world war would be older than 97 why is this myth perpetuated that if you are a pensioner then you defended the country (before I get lynched anyone who needs an ambulance should not have to wait this long)

Thank you for your kind words. Honestly the most horrific thing, luckily we got 4 days with her in a hospice and I was by her side when she passed away. I now care for my sister who has LD who had never spent a day without my mum and even though I’m a nurse and it probably wouldn’t have changed the outcome, I will forever wonder.

I wasn’t nearby to my mum so was completely helpless and also concerned that my sister was alone with her and I even rang the police to see if they could attend who told me they no longer do welfare checks 🤔

Nothing. The funding model is fine, it’s the delivery that needs reform.

The funding model is fine if it takes into account that there is little slack in the social care system, very few step down beds where people can go for rehab. Falling and breaking a hip that requires surgery means being at risk of pneumonia, due to not mobilising normally, at risk of delerium, so you are looking at a prolonged stay even though the primary reason for admission has been dealt with, add in no rehab beds or social care package for discharge, a reduction in muscle mass and so ability to mobilise, due to being bed bound and being deskilled with tasks they were previously independent with, and everything is against a speedy discharge and recovery.

This has been brewing for a very long time, we have known the population has been aging for well, ages.

This is so sad...

All those things are operational, nothing to do with the funding model.

I think you need to realise it’s nothing personal towards your Gran. The system is broken. There has been too many years of cost cutting and undervaluing the NHS.

When I left work today there was 121 patients in the A&E department alone.

If you've ever had any dealings with hospitals, you would be well aware that the NHS would be infinitely worse off without immigrants.

Unfortunately I wouldn't expect much better treatment once she is in hospital 😔 it seems to go downhill with moral, waiting, mental health, infections.
I was in hospital recently with a broken leg and I cannot believe the amount of elderly there were all with broken bones/infections, just stuck in hospital. One 80 year old woman had an infected hip from an op & she had been there 30 days!
No one should have to wait that long for an ambulance regardless of what the issue is, if there is no other way of transporting a patient safely. Unfortunately people try and use the ambulance as a taxi service for a broken finger and whatnot.

Absolutely.

I haven’t seen this great plan, could you link?
I’d be interested to see it.

I’ve been reading about increased digital appointments that will save thousands of trips to hospital, more community support, keeping people in their own homes & the 20 trusts with the highest employment inactivity to have health funding to get these people back to work but no actual rebuild plans.

It's a disgrace. I waited 14 hours in A&E with a heart attack.

All those things are operational, nothing to do with the funding model.

I am not sure I understand ? the NHS has no control over private social care providers ? or local authority social care beds, completely different pots of money.
The NHS has run its staffing levels and bed levels at what can only be described as 'unsafe' for years now, this isn't new. The population has risen, the elderly population has risen, and the bed numbers have been slashed, but the figures are worked out on the 'well ill' ,(by some bean counter who has never spent a shift on the wards), those who need day surgery or can come in and be discharged quickly following surgery, which is great for those individuals, no-one wants to spend more time in hospital than absolutely necessary. However that isn't the main demographic the NHS treats as inpatients and to pretend it is, is a false economy.

So sorry to hear this. The NHS is totally screwed, there is a domino effect, no ambulances because they are waiting outside backlogged A&E depts who can’t get beds on wards as people on wards are waiting for social care packages at home which can take weeks. My 93 yr old breathless terminally ill Mum sat on a hard plastic chair overnight in A&E last week for 14 hrs.

So sorry to read this, what a mess we’re in. I hope she gets some help soon.

There have been other wars since the 1939 to 1945 one

Just to add, he is now back home living independently at almost 97 so to those who are saying these people should be in care homes etc are not always right, grandad just needed help and the support wasn't provided in an adequate time...probably responding to some drunken idiots or the like

Your poor gran. 💐

She’s paying the price for years of hospitals tipping people out who can’t look after themselves - families are wise to it now. They refuse.

Rightly, no working family can take a demented, incontinent, immobile geriatric ‘back’.

Yes, the population is ageing, but the NHS created the bedbound army of social care patients. You would have thought they’d have noticed.