97 Yr old Gran waiting 8 hours for an ambulance with a broken hip!

[LoveCherryTree]

My Gran, 97 years of age, given to this country in World War, paid her taxes and NI all her life. She fell today in her home at 12pm, she has a broken hip, my Father called 999 and it is now 8pm and still no ambulance.
She can’t go to the loo as she can’t get up, my Father who has Parkinson’s and my Uncle, who has throat cancer, both in their 70’s, sitting with her.
This country is broken beyond repair, I even tried to get a private ambulance and they said that it won’t make a difference because all the front line ambulances are sat at the hospital with patients inside because they can’t get them into the hospitals….I despair, so it’s better for my 97 year old Gran to be in agony and wet herself, I just can’t believe it! Anyone know a member of parliament I can talk to about this? I’m utterly disgusted!

I really hope that Wes Streeting and his counterparts in the devolved administrations can get to grips with NHS reform. A massive task, long overdue.

Poor Gran, I hope she's OK and been transported to the hospital.
There was a similar story on TV yesterday. This mans wife was 30 hours on the floor waiting, he ended up they just couldn't wait any longer, she was in agony for so long. She also had a broken hip but he wouldn't know that but suspected it. He managed to get her into his car and drove her there himself, which is dangerous in itself, but I can fully understand why he did it.
The NHS is broken isn't it.

Yes it's broken and it's been collectively broken by the public, those who work in it and successive governments.

We need a social insurance scheme like those on the Continent. Nobody is copying the NHS and the fact that it's the best system is mythical.

Insofar as residential, elderly care is concerned we need a system that serves those who are clinically unwell and those who are socially unable to cope. For the former there shoukd be significant funding. Alzheimers is a disease just like cancer and there shoukd be help and support.

We have a family member in a fabulous nursing home. There was no wait to get them accepted there. It costs £78,000 per annum. Fortunately they have significant funds and it's mostly funded from occupational pensions (widows and the individuals). Not everyone has that level of quality care but everyone deserves it. If the money were to run out, the state would not fund that level of qualitative care. I would want nothing less for my mother or MIL.

I fear we are approaching a situation in the UK where the very best clinical care for cancer is not available at all or swiftly enough.

The only solution I can think of is the return / boosting numbers of cottage hospitals. An elderly patient with a broken hip needs a different kind of care to someone with a life threatening injury, heart attack or stroke.

Yes they need to be taken to hospital safely (by trained personnel). Yes they need to be adequately cared for by a team who understands the complex needs of an elderly patients. But in this scenario a blue light is not required.

Cottage hospital with their own ambulance teams who can deal with these sorts of injuries and care. A&E stays as it should be - the place for people who need acute emergency care.

Cottage hospitals don’t have theatres, orthopaedics, anaesthetists or high care wards all of which are required for a hip replacement following a fracture 🤷🏼‍♀️

The tories have been cutting health and social care budgets for years, we have been told to reduce the service we provide and haven't been able to recruit hone carers for over three years

No care at home packages= no one getting home from hospital= no available beds

It is not broken.
Health insurance schemes overnight add 3% to 10% to the cost of healthcare even if everything else stayed the same. You need staff to write insurance policies, sell them, marketing, collecting and processing payments, processing claims, and detecting fraud. The 3% cost is based on the most efficient insurance healthcare system, but most cost far more.
You also have co pays or excess to fund. So a £100 excess means you pay for GP visits (private GP consultation usually costs less than this) etc etc.
Insurance schemes benefit the well off and healthy. For those born with chronic issues they can be a nightmare.

similar thing happened to my MIL a few months back. i think it was 12 hours for a broken hip, on a hardfloor. relatives lifted her onto the toilet and then left her alone with unlocked front door as they had to go to work.

And the responder to the emergency button you wear round your next took about 40 minutes (so no good for anything really urgent like a stroke) and refused to put a blanket on her as it was outside their remitt.

If we could resolve social care, the NHS overnight would be transformed. An insurance based scheme will do nothing to solve social care.
Up to 10% of beds are taken up with people waiting to leave hospital. Nowadays even getting a hospital bed and commode delivered to someone's house is not quick. It used to happen within 24 hours. So even if relatives are willing to care for the person, there are still delays in the system.
Carers are so low paid and it is a hard job, so there is a real shortage of staff. Market forces does not seem to apply to the low paid.

The alert responder would have taken 40 minutes as they would be attending someone else, they aren't medically qualified to deal with things such as a stroke

Yes, people also can't get equipment now because abuse of budget cuts, they are being asked to buy equipment themselves

@Manypaws sorry i wasnt suggesting the responder should have dealt with the stroke, as this is the person who comes out and calls an ambulance if that is needed. My point is that if it takes this person 40 minutes to arrive then anything that requires super urgent care is already too late and the person will die. And surely most people can put a blanket on top of someone lying on a cold floor

People do have private health care already if they want it.
That shouldn’t be forced on some though and not on others.
Unless their payments go only into the private system which defeats the purpose really as the nhs will then have lost their payments.

How’s your granny now, OP?

My mum will be getting discharged from hospital soon, and she needs a care package before she comes home.
I’m hoping if it’s not in place in time she will get respite until it is.

Lots of people have private healthcare that gives limited coverage. And few people have it once they reach 70 as premiums start rising significantly.
If you need A and E or trauma care you are using the NHS. Also if you have specialist health needs you are using the NHS. DH sees a consultant at least once a year who is a specialist in his condition. You would have to go abroad to see a specialist privately.
Private healthcare is good for the easy operations. Knee replacement in an otherwise healthy person for example. These are the money making patients.

She may get transferred to somewhere that offers residential care. Don't take her home with the promise that if you can cover care for a few days, they will have carers in place then.

Yes they should have put a blanket on but it's a 999 that should be called if someone takes ill not the alert responder, there are only so many on shift, they cover a large area and are often with other service users when they get a call .

@Manypaws maybe i'm using the wrong terminology. My MIl wears a button round her neck which she presses if she needs medical help and she cant use the phone. I think this kit is fairly common with older people. If you are saying that they shouldnt be used if its an emergency then what is the point of them? And how should she get an ambulance?

Thanks for this. I’ve learned from mumsnet to be very wary of this sort of thing. I will be saying “unsafe discharge” if they try to send her home without a proper care package in place. With the best will in the world I just can’t do it.

Mum is merrily telling OTs, SWs that “my girls look after me” and “oh I’m coping well”.

I was fortunate to be present while an OT was asking her questions and had to keep interrupting to set the record straight. I literally said to the OT “I don’t recognise this narrative at all”. Mum was in full reminiscing mode and was talking about life 50 years ago when the OT meant last week. 🤦‍♀️

@unicorns88 I do not think that is true for older people. I am 60. By the time you get to my age you have seen a lot of people deteriorate and die.

@SuperfluousHen your mum won't get respite or residential care, if she is discharged from hospital without a package of care then the onus will be on you