To ask for opinions on the 'Get Britain Working' white paper?

[Locutus2000]

Now it's out in full?

I’m a nutshell over 9 million people of working age not working is huge. Like already pointed out, they are still using the NHS or schools and not contributing to the cost of those things. I know people who have managed to retire in their 50s and I don’t blame them. Yet we have people living longer and longer and we as a nation cannot afford it.
There are many people who could work who don’t. There are many non working people who are financially better off than those who work- this should never be the case.
There are plenty of people who don’t even do voluntary work who could. Only yesterday a charity shop I was in were announcing over the radio that they needed volunteers. Some people just don’t want to even apply.
I have a friend who started volunteering at a charity shop with the precise aim that she would use this experience to then get a job, which she did. Her disabled daughter did the same and now her disabled daughter also has a job, and not working for the charity I should add.
I worked for free in a school. I put this on my CV and got a job.
It is hard work. It can be disheartening but so is life.
I always remember the words on a job application form from years ago. It said something like show how you have achieved blah blah even recognising that you may have been disadvantaged in your life, show how you have overcome those unfair disadvantages and managed to succeed in X Y and Z.

Many of these young people have been let down hugely by mental health services and the education system. I’m wondering how you get such people into work without the support and treatment they need.

It’s partly down to mindset isn’t it.
The same as it’s much, much easier to sit on your arse all day watching TV and eating crap.
However some people resist this easy path and get up, get dressed go out for a brisk walk and force themselves to eat a healthy diet.
Mind over matter.
My friend’s dd doesn’t have any qualifications due to her disability. Her job is boring and dead end. But she has done it.
You can get work if you are prepared to do it.
Often though, you are no better off financially, but it’s there if you want to improve your self esteem.

I doubt that's workable. I also suspect that all the positive things and plans are fluff to disguise the actual thing that's going to be done which is take sick and disabled people's benefits away or carry on with the tories stupid voucher idea (good news for whichever friend of the government gets to be the one people are forced to go to with the vouchers)

Maybe one of the key points for getting young people into work is to change the focus at school towards achievable future employment not just university.

Many schools drum into DC that they need to do A levels and go university. Otherwise, let's face it they are a failure (please note the sarcasm).

Obviously the NHS needs fixing as health issues are not dealt with in a timely manner. Leaving people deflated, depressed and unmotivated. Being stuck on a waiting list becomes a vicious circle that can knock anyone's confidence.

Also it’s down to parenting.
When my son quit his A levels he wasn’t allowed to just sit on his arse at home all day. I made him get a job in a factory. It really was a wake up call as he is very intelligent and could do much better.
He is now working in a very good role. Despite being young he has worked in various countries through work and is seeing the world. He called me yesterday to announce that he has passed his latest exams, and will be attending his awards ceremony later this month. I reiterated how very proud I am of him. Harsh, firm boundaries. It did not come easy and quite frankly if I had been a different type of parent, he would probably still be sat on his arse playing video games all day.
Parenting is responsible for an awful lot.
It is hard work.
Unfortunately a lot of parents want to absolve themselves of the responsibility.
As another poster pointed out, supportive patents count for a lot.
If you do not have good role models then it will be easy to follow suit. Again, children model themselves on their parents, which is why you often find generations of non working families.

my eldest has severe learning difficulties and needs 24/7 care. Good luck to them. Sounds like they want to shoehorn all disabled people into work (or education). Bit worried tbh. I can only work reduced hours as I am their carer. I would love to work full time but unless we get a fully funded social care package for DC, this won't happen. much easier to trap carers into the much cheaper carers allowance package.

It really isn’t down to parenting.

Has your son got multiple NDs, battled for an education, repeatedly tried to take his own life?

Thank you for posting that. I know of several people in this position and it would be difficult or impossible for them to work outside the home. What you are doing is very hard work, just unpaid.

Similar position. We can work full time. But we would need either supported living for our disabled children or 40-50 hours social care packages so someone can look after them whilst we work. This will never happen as it is far cheaper to force us into slave labour (that's what carers allowance is in fact).

Agreed. Successive governments trying to pretend that this mass disabling event has not happened. And is not continuing to happen with no vaccination for the majority of working age adults.

I think the magic wand for producing money is broken, so they need a new type of wand.

A magic whip?

Or making people who can't find employment live communally in massive buildings where they get food and are made to do tasks such as making cloth, doing laundry, breaking stones...

Edit - they'd also get a nice little uniform they all had to wear.

@Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast What is your solution for the growing number of young people who are long term unemployed (no disability issues, just have not secured employment), are over the age of 18 and are currently living with family (at present time).

What do you think is going to happen to them when their family decide that they are no longer able to accommodate them?

I think what the Government and civil servants need to realise (and perhaps some of them do, you would hope more than the Conservatives) is that all the people who are FT carers and can't work are saving the state money.

If they did go to work and there was some kind of care provided it would surely be costly and outweigh their contributions through taxation.

We have to look at other ways to make society function with fewer people being economically inactive. Yes, there are some people who could be helped into work and they should be given proper help and not sanctioned unfairly.

Also though I'm sure I've read in some places that in the UK there are a lot more people who are long term unwell and unable to work than in other countries. Is this true and if so, why?

There needs to be a lot more done to work out why people are economically inactive and to work out how many - realistically - could be helped and encouraged into work.

I would urge anyone who is able to on this thread and affected by these issues to email and make their views known to their local MP.

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/

@Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast Great idea. They could call them Job Houses.

@OnlyTheBravest The decline of UK industries hasn’t helped. We no longer have coal mining, most steelworks have closed, textiles are largely manufactured abroad. My dad studied chemistry at college in the early 60s which set him up for an apprenticeship in mining engineering. He was a senior engineer by his late 20s. My brother wasn’t very academic but secured an apprenticeship in the early 00s without difficulty. He didn’t have to compete with thousands of others, nor did he have to complete endless interviews and tests. He went on to become a skilled and well-paid professional, but now he’s at risk of losing his job because manufacturing of the essential product his sector works with is being moved abroad.

A quick Google search tells me that entry-level apprenticeships have declined by 72% since 2014. It used to be that most people who didn’t or couldn’t go into further education did an apprenticeship. What are their options now? And even if they do go on to university, there’s no guarantee it will lead to a job because the graduate market is so competitive. Graduate schemes attract thousands and thousands of applicants. Many careers require a minimum of a masters plus experience. Level 7 apprenticeships which were hard to come by are going to be axed I believe. Most apprenticeships seem to be in retail, hospitality and administration and employers can pay as little as £6.40 an hour for them. My first proper job was secretarial work. I didn’t need to do an apprenticeship, I just spent a week or so learning what was what and I was paid reasonably well for it.

Throw Brexit into the mix and it’s really, really tough out there for people trying to establish a career.

100% this @Jaehee The job market has changed irreparably and more people who would have gone into traditional blue collar jobs can no longer do so. We are starting to see the impact of this e.g increasing mental health issues and young people 'failing to launch'.

We can make jokes about the return to the workhouse but if we actually care about the young and their future, we need to have discussions and start talking about reasonable fixes. Does the white paper from Labour do this? Not at all but we can use it as a starting point to engage in discussions about what needs to be done.

We also need to have a discussion about the rising number of people with disabilities and how we as a society 'care' for them. As people have previously mentioned parents are providing care for young adults with disabilities, which hinders their ability to engage in full or part time roles. What happens to these children as their carers get older or pass away? What happens to carers who are unable to save efficiently for retirement? These are valid questions and should not be perceived as personal attacks against individuals who are affected.

I have had diagnosed mh problems since my teens. Over the years I have completed specialised training courses three times and each time at the end I have struggled to even get interviews. Nobody wants to employ me. It’s even harder nowadays because you get screened out based on your cv at the first stage.

This is what I'm wondering about when Labour says it will sanction people

What is it that they'll do in a situation like this

The other thing is my illness is cyclical. So I could be fine for a while, then suddenly unable to work. What are people supposed to do in that situation?

I see people asking how the disabled or long term sick are included in these plans. The answer is, they are not. Is it really a coincidence that an assisting dying bill is being touted in the same week. Is it hell. This government wants the sick and disabled DEAD. Either by pressure to kill oneself with state "assistance" or by starvation benefit sanctions, preferably complete removal.

I'll be alright though, I will probably die from the stress or from being ignored by the NHS before much longer. That or I'll be forced to commit suicide my own way.

Five months ago, they diagnosed me, via a blood test, with diabetes that is a stated common side effect with several heart meds they put me on and failed to monitor me on. We'll have to retest you to confirm in a month before we can give you any treatment, they said. Month goes by, get a text saying, "nah, mate. Three months because the lab will refuse a blood test if it's less than three months. Call us when the three months is up". It's now been five months. I've begged. My husband has begged. A chap from the local social care board has asked. My blood sugar monthly average is over 12 when it ideally needs to be 4. My readings are 15.8 at 4am. Never goes below 10. My eyesight is going. I can barely eat. My heart condition is getting worse. My kidney failure is getting worse. My liver is swollen. I can barely stay awake. I've got so much water retention that I struggle to lift my body up from a chair. I can't stand or walk long enough to get to my front door let alone climb off the long steep hill I live on in a flat where the lift is always broken but I am obviously a lazy cunt who needs my PIP taking off me or swapped for wheelchair vouchers when I already have one so I can't actually spend it on the stuff I need, like the chemist products the NHS won't or can't provide.

I am a lazy fat cunt and everybody wants me DEAD.

I’m so sorry for what you have experienced. I despise the neoliberal narrative around work and the implications that those with disabilities are lesser because they cannot work. Our worth is not defined by our employment status.

Your life is valuable. I hope you have people in your life who can support you and that you can get the care you need.

People need to remember that only 20% of disabled people are born with their initial disability, every single person on earth is just one illness or accident away from being disabled to some degree.