House Purchase: DH - seller is going to be difficult

[Stellaaaaaaa]

Need some advice re a house purchase.

The house we are interested in is being sold by the children of the owners, to pay for their care home fees. The parents have both in residential care for over a year.

The house came on the market in late spring/ for £750k but was later reduced to £735k.

It remained on the market at £735k and an offer was accepted in July / August.

The house has come back on the market because the prospective buyers failed to sell their home.

We’ve had two viewings and placed an offer of £705k which was rejected. We placed a second offer at £712k, a day later, which has also been rejected.

I think our offers are reasonable based on the condition and other comparables. The local market has had a slow down this past month, and a few houses are back on the market.

We are chain free, having sold our home earlier this year.

I want to place another final offer but DH is no longer interested.

He thinks the sellers will mess us around because there isn’t the incentive for them to push through sale, unlike a normal sale. He also thinks they won’t negotiate on price if the survey reveals faults.

Has anyone purchased a house which is being sold by someone who has power of attorney? Does it make things more complex?

Id like to get people’s thoughts if they have similar experience?

When I sold my dads house for his home care costs, I had to sell for under 10% valuation as a minimum x

Meant could only reduce it by 10% as a maximum, it's early for me lol.

Your offers are fine. It’s normal to offer under the asking price. Considering they’ve already reduced price and no one else has bought it and it’s been on for months it’s clearly over priced. They don’t even need the extra few thousand as they aren’t buying another house. I would not offer more. Many people still think their house is what it was worth in the Covid bubble and won’t accept it’s dropped. They may also have taken the highest value of various agents. It’s not even their house!

@Stellaaaaaaa A house is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. The value they are advertised for is nothing more than an educated guess based on previous sold prices, economics of the area and known figures by the estate agents.

Ultimately advertised prices are what people would like not what they would get. A reduction from 750k to 712k is 5% below asking price so ignore those who say it’s cheeky etc. it’s a perfectly legitimate offer.

depending on your budget I would go back to them and say 715/718k final offer subject to survey. Make it clear the offer is on the table for 5 days and your proceedable position and it will be the last offer you make.

if they don’t accept they are not serious about selling and I say that based on your explained history of what has happened so far with their sale. They may get lucky and hold out for 725k for example but they may end up getting less than 700k it’s just the chance they are willing to take.

@Stellaaaaaaa personally I’d think it was a bit of a low offer. They may not be in a rush so can afford to wait. It comes down to how much you love and want the house. No reason for them to be any worse than any other seller.

If you love the house, I’d make a final offer of whatever you’re prepared to pay.

it’s not messing people around to reject two low offers.

Im not sure of legalities but in my situation we've just moved into a house that was sold by spouse who had POA for her husband. Final week before we moved he had an accident and could have died. If so because of how their will was probate would have been needed. Just something to bear in mind.

Interesting. Obviously Zoopla is just an estimate but an interesting one. You'll also know about the area etc, plus you've viewed the house. I think they're hoping to maximise their price and that's fine, but the fact that it's been on the market for so long could have potentially motivated them to reduce. It hasn't, so I guess that's where you are. Leave a time limited offer on the table, if you'd like, and continue viewing.

My experience - two years ago, deep in the post-covid house price boom, we had an offer accepted on a house. We offered £2K over asking. The EA made a big song and dance of how we were not the highest bidders, they had loads much higher ones, but we were chain free. We start the process, mortgage valuation comes back at nearly £20K less. Amusingly, vendors just would not budge. Would not discuss any discount, would not discuss meeting in the middle (not that I would meet in the middle - it'd probably have put us in negative equity now), nothing. EA breezily asks us to plug the gap and insists it's totally normal and happens all the time. The vendors will not accept any less and "remember they're sitting on multiple much higher offers so it'll sell within hours". We walked away. I saved the house and noticed it kept coming on the market, then SSTC, then back on the market, SSTC again. It sold a full two years later and was advertised at the original price. Some vendors are so stubborn they will very much cut their nose to spite their face and they forget that it's a massive, life changing purchase for the buyers as well! Most buyers will be getting a mortgage so they won't be able to throw money around willy nilly, compromise is required and a strong dose of realism.

Why do so many buyers see surveys as a way to renegotiate prices?!

It sounds like you guys may be more Messer's than the sellers.

If they want more than you think it's worth, wait for another house. If it's worth spending another £20k to get the house you love, then increase your offer.

If you're serious about it, why don't you ask if you can do a survey first, then at least you'll be offering an amount your comfortable with. I HATE that you can get halfway through the process and then have people suddenly dropping prices because a survey says the roof may need replacing within 5 years. All houses need work at the cost of the owner.

Proper offers? Ignore that poster OP. The markets going to tank. I think you have been more than generous. I have bought 3 BTL in the last 2 months from normal (not investor sellers). All at between 12 and 18% off asking

So you need to go to 720 next. They’re not messing you around, your offers are just too low.

MNers always think house prices are unreasonable and grabby and the seller needs to lower the price so they can afford their dream home. Some sellers do overprice but some buyers live in lalaland.

@GettingThemFromHereToThere

"why do so many buyers see surveys as a way to renegotiate prices"

Because for example the survey can come back saying house needs a new roof right now. Are you saying something like this offers no room for negotiation, provided it's not already been reflected in the agreed price?

Hey mystic meg, could you also let me know if I'm going to get a promotion this year?

It's so bombastic to say the markets going to tank. You absolutely don't know that, in fact, financial forecasts are that there'll be a 20% increase on market prices over the next 5 years.

No one knows, don't pretend you do.

Rarely do roofs need immediate work. But also buyers have eyes. You can see evidence of leaks or cover ups. Always be curious and critical when you view a house and incorporate your concerns into your original offer. If you're buying a house in disrepair, offer knowing that.

Surveys are always over the top and risk adverse. And the seller can't be expected to sell a pristine house. Most sellers will have incorporated the condition of the house into the price they accept in the first place. Trying to get £££s off later on is a dodgy tactic that isn't accepted in lots of other countries with much better buying and selling methods.

I don’t think either side is being unreasonable, it’s just how a negotiation is. They want to make sure their parents are provided for, and I assume are a bit disappointed to be having to accept less than the previous offer. You don’t want to overpay.

I disagree with your DH about there being no imperative for them to sell though, care home fees are extortionate and they won’t want to see the house starting to fall into disrepair. It might take a little longer for them to agree decisions but they will want it sold.

If I were you I’d wait a few days and maybe go and have a look at other properties so you can assess what comparables are like and then make a decision- if you love the house it’s worth making one final offer, and the likelihood is that you’ll get money back anyway- but if you’re lukewarm then let this one go.

I wouldn’t go in with another offer if it’s only a tiny bit higher. Honestly it looks like an insult to the seller. We had some bloke offering under then offered another two times with £1,000 incremental adjustments. It was bloody irritating and we said to just say no to anything further. If you are going to offers again make sure it’s at least a 5k jump.

Historically 5 to 10% under asking was what people would normally achieve so 712 for 735 seems more than fair

Times have changed though. People set a price and most either expect to achieve it or accept an offer that’s higher.

He also thinks they won’t negotiate on price if the survey reveals faults.

We sold a probate property a couple of years ago and didn't accept any offers, it went to B&F (all over asking) and told the EA beforehand that any attempt to renegotiate the price after the survey would result in the house immediately going back on the market.
Admittedly it was a desirable house and the market was more buoyant than it is now but my point is that you should not assume the sellers are eager to sell just because the owners are in care, a probate sale etc.

Relatives with P of A sold the house of an aunt who’d had to move to a care home. They weren’t familiar with the area and accepted the EA’s valuation, which was evidently too high. Reasoning that with P of A they were obliged to get the best price for the aunt, they turned down several offers and the price was eventually reduced in little dribs and drabs.

After well over a year it finally sold - to someone who’d offered more 6 months previously, and been turned down!

@GettingThemFromHereToThere I appreciate that some people on both sides of the house hunting game can employ dodgy practices. However I was not talking about anything dodgy, I'm simply saying what if a survey comes back saying you need to change the roof today. I disagree it's rare - in fact I'd presume it happens more often than we realise because a vendor could have renovated the entire house, done a top job, priced accordingly, not noticed any leaks or anything as they take time to start making themselves obvious, then a surveyor pops their head into the loft to check the original 1930s roof on a very rainy day and here it is. I don't think it's a crazy scenario.

People who hold a POA are legally required to do their best for the POA donor(s) when making financial decisions...in that respect its like being an executor of a will. This will limit their decision on whether or how much of a reduction they can accept.

I have POA for my grandma and sold her house a couple of years ago to pay for her care home fees. We had sold our own house a few months earlier and comparatively selling my DG's was a much simpler process as for me it was just a case of turning a capital asset into cash and nothing more.

My primary duty as POA however is to act in my DG's best interests which includes ensuring I got the best price I could for house to finance her ongoing care.

If I was in your sellers shoes I would be looking at how much money their parents had in the bank already and how long that would fund their care, if it was more than 12 months then I wouldn't be considering an offer as low as yours just yet, I hold on until the market picks up in spring.

All the usual nonsense you have when your moving house yourself is completely removed from the picture. It is purely about ensuring that the price they achieve will fund their parents comfort until they pass away. It has to be about money for them.

Your situation is complicated by the fact that it's been under offer for a good period of time already (do you know what that price was? That would have been/will be an enormous help to you re. strategy). They had mentally decided that the previous offer is what their house is 'worth'; they will have mentally worked out how many years of nursing care that will cover. They will be (rightly or wrongly) fixated on that price as the house's current value.

So if it previously went under offer at £730, then you offering £705 was very lowball and £712 hardly better. I would imagine you'd have needed to be at the £720/£725 level to open negotiations. Unfortunately with the house being overvalued originally (at £750), they have high expectations of the price; in their heads they are thinking "Baggins & Co said it was worth £750! We can't accept less than xxx!"

Why do people view houses they can’t afford?