Flu vaccination - why bother to get consent? (edited by MNHQ at request of the OP)

[Emeraldiisland]

My DS received the flu vaccine at school today without consent. My phone is rubbish and can't scan QR codes which is how the school ask you to give consent.
My fault partly as I did mean to mention it but kept forgetting.
Anyway picked him up just now and was told he'd had the vaccine, I said don't you need consent and they said I didn't not give consent. I just wonder why they ask for consent if they're going to do it anyway.
For all they know he might have had a vaccine at the doctors.
I don't want to be that parent but shouldn't they get consent? Or is it okay because I didn't not get consent?
On this occasion it doesn't matter but what if it was something I didn't want him to have?

Good grief, definitely complain! They wouldn't have known if you'd given him the vaccine on Saturday so he could have been given a double dose 😮

Definitely don't let it lie. My dd is due hers this week and I've consented but last year I'd forgotten to do the consent form therefore she wasn't vaccinated. Even though I want her vaccinated if they'd done it without consent I would have definitely complained, how do they know he hasn't already had a flu vaccination this year?
This is very serious OP don't let it lie

But you DID not consent. So how can they say you DIDN’T not consent??

The form isn’t just for consent. It’s also used to say you don’t consent.
I only know this because I didn’t want mine vaccinated at school but still had to complete the form to say the same.
But without the completed form then there is no consent. I wouldn’t be happy. What if he was allergic to that type of vaccine (some have egg etc)

I cannot begin to tell you how many phone calls I've made to secondary school parents to ask for consent for vaccines over the last 15 years. And don't get me started on covid testing consent.

It is 100% opt-in. Consent MUST be given for vaccines - it's an invasive medical procedure, not like does little Johny want chops or mash for lunch.

I'd be taking this to the head, governors and LEA as well as the school nursing team. Absolutely atrocious.

I’m a nurse and I’m pretty sure this comes under a medication error!

I work with adults but can’t see it being much different for children. We have rights of medication where we have to check identity and check it’s the right medication, the right dose, the right patient and at the right time. Surely they’ll have had to match consent with each child. Even if no harm has been done this time, id still raise it as harm could be caused next time to another child with life threatening consequences because it could have been a child with an allergy

What the fuck? I'd be absolutely furious.

At my son’s secondary school from around year 9, regardless of whether you can consent or not they ask the child for consent as they are deemed old enough to decide for themselves regardless of parents wishes. At age 4 it definitely shouldn’t have been done without consent.

Yes you should have been asked for consent. The school where I work ask for consent for everything like face painting, riding bikes on the playground.

It’s not a failure by the school

It’s a failure by the NHS vaccination team (which is using the school as a base)

@MiscellaneousSupportHuman I think I was using "school" in a general sense to mean the systems and processes that are communicated via the school, although as you correctly pointed out the vaccination is done by the NHS.

I helped arrange the vaccination visit this year. The team had lists of consent and no consent and would check twice before administration and record the details for each child.

I doubt your vaccination team is in the habit of giving random children medication.

I don't think assumed consent can be used here.

Assumed consent is if you present to A&E for treatment and they hand you a medication/send you to x-ray.

You then choose to take the medication/go and co-operate with the x-ray being taken and consent is assumed as you are participating.

A non verbal 4 year old who does not know what is going on and is unlikely to have the frame of reference to understand the likely risks cannot be assumed to have given consent.

Likewise as parents are not present at the time they cannot be assumed to have given consent either - if they were present, that could be okay, but not ideal.

This is unacceptable. You have done nothing wrong, OP. It doesn't matter whether you forgot to speak to the school or not...the nurse shouldn't have given him the flu vaccine because you didn't consent. Unless you officially gave consent via their form then you did not consent. Someone has messed up here and I would be very angry in this situation.

I mean the school are also at fault, they have a duty of care towards the children and should have made sure that due process is followed on their premises and under their care. Ultimate responsibility lies with the medical professional who administered the injection with no consent. But the school are hardly blameless either.

When we did our vaccines at school the other week the only children that went anywhere near the nurses were the ones with written consent. Your son shouldn't have been in that group at all. Definitely follow up

Something has gone wrong. He could have been meant to have the egg vaccine or something.

That’s awful OP

This happened to DS in primary. I'd not consented due to advice from his audiologist about it aggravating his glue ear but they gave it to him by mistake. Despite me being fairly ok about it, it was a HUGE deal, had to be escalated to national level I had calls from all sorts of PHE super senior NHS managers, was advised I could take legal action if I wanted. The (usually very chilled) Deputy Head looked like he might throw up when he had to tell me what had happened, the staff were all absolutely terrified of the consequences. Thankfully, DS was fine, but they had no idea if he was allergic, it is a very serious balls up and they should be grovelling and carrying out a full investigation.

This is a huge medicolegal fuck up.

My son is non consent for flu vaccine, only because he is also asd and will not let them near him and the last thing I want is him being traumatised by some well meaning nurse trying to cajole him along and pushing him into it, so he’s a no, school have been told he is to go nowhere near the vaccine area on those days. Surely the teacher knew he was not for vaccination? I vaccinate babies so parents are there, couldn’t do schools, my son could do with getting his due to asthma etc but he’s too old to hold these days so he votes with his feet, utterly frustrating.

complain op, should’ve never happened. Sorry it did. Hope your son is ok

We can also not vaccinate a child in the community who is school age until the full school scheme is over, but how would they know if he was on meds, increased wheeze and use of blue inhaler is contraindicated, anaphylaxis to egg too, not to mention it has pork gelatine in, so if you didn’t want it for any reason it would be too late, I’ve been phoned by the nurses before to check these things as I’d forgotten to give my son his consent form back, they can’t just vaccinate with no info am quite shocked, I’m so careful in my role to make sure children get the correct vaccine etc

They might not be in the habit of giving children random medication but on this occasion they have.
Or do you think massive mistakes don't happen?

The nurses won't share this info with teachers at my school. We line all the children up and they are checked for consent by the nurse when they reach the front of the line. It is made very clear to us that it is not for the school to be involved, they are simply using our school as a premises in the same way the midwife team uses the leisure centre.

I’m a TA and I go with the children to have the flu vaccine. My own child has never had it and never will have it (yes I feel very strongly about it).
The staff should do a check with each child on the list which states which children have had consent. They check the dob, name etc and mother's name (yes even for 4 year olds!). We are only allowed to take the children who have consent. If there is an issue, the parent of the child is contacted for example we have a child whose parent is undergoing chemo but had given consent.
Both the school staff and the nurses administering it have massively fucked and I would be absolutely raging if that was my child.