To say that if the assisted dying bill isn't passed....

[OnceUponATimeInTheWest]

that, regardless of where you personally stand on the issue, it will finally be undeniable that we do not live in a truly representative democracy at all?

Given the latest poll in the Times, it is clear that the vast majority of the population support the bill (65% for and 13% against) and yet most of the media seems to be full of story after story about this person or that coming out against it (unsurprisingly, often people with a religious background). I don't remember seeing nearly as many stories about someone telling us they support the bill. The narrative feels as though it is being steered in only one direction.

I mean, it's already fairly much clear that our elected politicians prefer to tell us what to do and what we should think, rather than actually representing our wishes. Otherwise immigration and transgender issues would not still be dominating the headlines. The fact that an amendment to remove bishops from the house of lords failed recently should also tell us that religion still plays far too much of a role in what is an overwhelmingly secular society.

If this bill fails, then anyone in future trying to tell us that we live in one of the greatest democracies in the world is, at this point, just gaslighting us.

You could be right, MrsTerryPratchett, but I guess we shouldn't really be surprised given the attitudes - some which we've seen on this thread - towards the sick and disabled

It'll certainly give MN's notorious anti-ageism a boost ...

It's funny isn't it. It wouldn't be emotive to me at all. People have a right to choose. It's their body/life, not mine. Why should I or any other MP have a say?

And?

Suffering is pretty much guaranteed at end of life. We're all going to go, none of us know the hour.

I want compassion.

I do not want state-sanctioned death.

Too much potential for all kinds of badness.

As soon as the state has a hand in death, it's just a step away from pressure not to be 'a burden' look at Canada. I'm not being hyperbolic.

It's no good.

Give over go abd fucking suffer then a guy was vomiting 5 hours of his own poo then to me nope thats wrong. It's not stare sanctioned it's yiur choice

And people do have a choice, it's fairly easy to buy the means to euthanise oneself on the internet these days. No-one will be prosecuted if an individual chose that route.

Death is not the business of government. It's a very bad path.

Simply not true, as was said by the mp of the amount of people that have botched. So what you are saying is that we kind of sanctioning it anyway, but it's not legal this way, it's going to be done legally, which is why it's going to take a further two years of consultations work it all out

I always appreciate a well reasoned rejoinder.

Thanks.

Maybe because I get very angry with people like yourself. Because I have been very upset listening to the stories today.I have tears in my eyes at people that have got ptsd.After watching their loved ones suffer for days

I don’t actually think if palliative care were 100% effective it would make any difference to my opinion. I think people should have a right to chose death over 6 months of slow decline, regardless of how pain free it is.

That's the problem.

I have had it up to here with people talking about this bill as if it was about assisted dying. It is about assisted suicide.

My father died of covid, in a hospital with oxygen and pain relief. My FIL died of Alzheimers, in a hospital, with pain relief. My ex FIL died in a hospital with advanced heart failure, with pain relief. My brother died of cancer, at home, with pain relief.

All four cases are examples of assisted dying. Treatment was withdrawn but pain relief of various sorts was provided.

My mother, in her late-90s, died (basically of constipation) at home in intermittent agony with no drugs except paracetamol. When I begged for palliative or end-of-life care I was told it wasn't available in a home setting except for cancer patients. She died without any meaningful pain relief.

Palliative and end of life care is what we should be talking about - how to make it available to everyone who needs it, in the setting of their choice, at appropriate levels for their levels of pain.

And we shouldn't be using the term "assisted dying" in relation to a bill intended to allow medical staff to give lethal injections or pills to people. Please. No more euphemisms. The bill that was passed today was about assisted suicide. Fair enough to support it, but don't call it assisted dying. That's something else.

So very happy that MPs voted in favour of this, another step along this road to hopefully ending the risk of unnecessarily long protracted deaths and the sometimes gruesome final weeks of end stage terminal illness. Patients are going to have a choice should they wish to walk away from the real possibility of a painful death.

Very depressing what this country has become

It's just going to get worse. No doubt the Tories will get back in and they want to tear up our human rights.

You do you, it won’t be forced upon you. If you want to suffer a painful long prolonged death crack on.

Other people don’t want that. I’m so pleased they now have a choice!

You see what you did there.

You didn't just say it was their choice...you implied by your phrasing that their choice was wrong If you want to suffer a painful long prolonged death crack on. This is exactly what worries me.

It’s liberating that people don’t have to suffer now and they can chose when they’ve had enough.

No idea what you’re going on about

That's the problem.

Ok...I'll try again seeing as you don't understand.

What you said here ..you basically implied that the choice not to opt for assisted suicide is the wrong one... you said

If you want to suffer a painful long prolonged death crack on

What I predicted is already coming true. Assisted dying is the socially acceptable option.

If assisted dying does get through all the legal stages and is implemented and you actually said to a terminally ill person If you want to suffer a painful long prolonged death crack on that would surely be seen as coercive don't you think ?

It’s choice -

I disagree with what you’re implying.

Thats your interpretation and concern - Not everyone thinks like you.

Not for those coerced into it, it isn't.