To wonder why agricultural land is worth so much?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

This is a genuine question because I'm trying to understand.

I keep hearing farmers say that farming is very unprofitable, that even huge farms worth several million pounds produce next to no income, and that farmers would be forced to sell land in order to pay the tax bill, thereby making the business unviable. Hence the opposition to inheritance tax.

But if that's the case, how is it that these farms are worth so much in the first place? Surely, if it's such an unprofitable business, you would expect the value of the farm to drop to reflect the fact that it's actually a very unattractive investment?

NB I'm not trying to score a political point here, I do really want to understand.

Farms need to do something similar to what stately homes did

Open their doors and run it as a tourist attraction

Seems to be working for Chatsworth

the figures are not correct, and you ask would someone be happy eating 30% less. Is that to distract from the figures being incorrect?

I'm clearly not referring to his vacuums here.

Horsieculture, where I live in a very fertile valley in North Somerset a lot is now owned by horse owners. They are prepared to buy land by paying well over the odd. About 20 years ago I had a business idea and needed about 5 acres of land. It should have sold at about £4000 per acre. Several plots came up at one time so there was an adequate supply which is unusual. The cheapest sold at £10,000 per acre. There was no way I could have made money with my plans within 5 years of the outlay.

I look at those fields now and most are really well managed with people knowing what they are doing...but some are dreadfully managed and the owners are having to feed their animals almost all year round.

Care to provide the ‘true’ figures?

We aren’t 100% food secure. Please do provide proof that we are and I shall eat my hat. Wait a minute… actually I won’t need to…

And just how many people would pay, and how much per visit, to go to an arable farm? All you can see there is yards full of modern machinery and barns full of produce (and e.g. grain isn't THAT interesting to look at). And some muddy fields that may or may not have a load of the same green plant growing in it.

Livestock farms aren't much more interesting. Yes you have "cute" animals but to be honest cows up close seem much less cute when you see the sheer size of them, calves and lambs are only usually born in the spring. They tend to be covered in mud & poo, which even if you hosed everywhere down every day will accumulate within a few hours. There are thousands of farms of varying sizes, types, upkeep standards, "picturesque-ness", and most smaller farmers can't spend the time being on call to show people around if they do happen to choose that farm to turn up at. And you can't leave visitors just wandering around, farms can be VERY dangerous places.

Whereas a big stately home like Chatsworth has the house with all the glorious architecture and antiques in it, and rolling acres of attractive pleasure parkland and gardens. They were designed right from the start to be beautiful filled with even more beautiful things and surrounded by beautiful countryside.

I did give the correct figures in the post you quoted

I didn't at any point state we were 100% food secure

A Jonny
Jonny is a "rich" farmer- he owns land is worth a lot and valuable other assets. Tractors, combine, animals, barns, other equipment is valuable.

B Sid
Sid owns, a nice house, a few cars, perhaps other expensive things a stamp collection etc).

Jonny and Sid both die and their children inherit but are both subject to inheritance tax. Sid's children keep a few bits they want, they sell off the rest. Make a pretty penny, pay the inheritance tax and keep the rest of the money.

Jonny's children however can't really do that, because the farm is a whole, the assets, yes are worth a lot, maybe more that Sid's stuff, but if John's children are to keep farming - what can they sell to pay the inheritance tax?

• Sell the equipment - they can't work the fields, so the farm fails
• Sell the barns - all their crops rot before they go to market, or all the animal feed rots and the animals starve to death. The farm fails.
• Sell their animals - there's nothing to milk, collect eggs from, sheer to sell wool, slaughter to give them meat to sell.

There's no liquid assets. There's no way of paying the tax. The only way of paying the tax is to sell the farm. Then they can pay, but then they are out of work struggling to survive, without enough money to buy another farm, and there is one less farm producing food for everyone else to buy. (Assuming it isn't sold as a going concern, but it's more likely to be sold to a property developer who builds houses on it, because other farmers won't have the money to buy it.)

Bear in mind that most farmers will be making quite a lot, but their own wage won't be much. Most of their money, by far, will go into farm up keep - new seeds, vets bills, feed bills, equipment repair and replacement etc. When they die, none of that money will be clawed back.

What about when Derek the tenant farmer dies, 50% of farmers are tenant farmers, so let’s include him

So what’s your point?

Nit picking on numbers?

Essentially the problem is still there.

We are not at 100% and given that U.K. and France are discussing putting our troops on the ground in Ukraine to fight if Trump withdraws from the war, I’d say that we should begin to prioritise core requirements such as enough food. The world appears to be getting ever more hostile. Sadly.

Stately homes were built to impress other people, by their very nature they were there as a form of entertainment for visitors, whether it was a travelling monarch, extended family, or local and visiting dignitaries/businesses. They often have enough private space for a family to live in away from the visitors.

Farms are not set up for visitors, they are places of work and frequently dangerous.