To think landlords who own multiple properties are part of the housing crisis?

[ByArtfulOliveDuck]

Is it unreasonable to say that having a portfolio of rental homes is unethical in a housing shortage?

This. The news always seems to be full of landlords selling because BTL doesn't work as well these days. In some cases it is causing shortages of rental properties.

Property that is let out increases supply as it is more densely occupied. Nobody ever rented a four bed house to live in it alone but plenty of owner occupiers might do that in later life.

If landlords sell up it is likely that overall less people will be housed.

Someone has to own the houses the people rent and not everyone can get a mortgage.
There’s going to be even more of a crisis as people offload these homes. It will help some get on the property ladder but for those who can’t get a mortgage the lack of housing will push rental prices up.

Say a property is for sale at a reasonable price which a first time buyer - couple or family could get enough deposit to buy, the grabbing landlord with multiple properties will offer asking or above asking price without even blinking, taking away another affordable property away. That's the issue. No-one should have loads of houses.

We're selling next year and have determined we will not sell to a landlord.

The current housing crisis wasn’t started by landlords. It was started almost 2 decades ago post 2008 crash with rich oligarchs laundering money and buying great swathes of London and leaving those properties empty. The former government allowed this to happen and then blamed landlords.

Mass immigration and lack of affordable housing is causing the housing shortage, not Landlords

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is that when DS was looking for his first house all the "starter" houses were being listed as "suit first time buyer or BTL". It doesn't seem right that BTL should be in competition with first time buyers.

This is another factor. And these people will want rental accommodation.

As someone who long term rented in my twenties, and with ALL of the properties being both simultaneously overpriced and yet not fit for living conditions (damp, old, knackered) I would still say no, landlords themselves aren’t the issue. It’s more the wider issues. We live in a small country with a shortage of land, high population levels, high cost of living, less people getting married, buy to let investment opportunities and GREED.

For example, our old landlady bought the house in her twenties when it was around 50p to purchase in a less desirable part of the city, but by the time we came along that area was highly sought with young people (mugs like us) needing somewhere to you know, live, and she was laughing all the way to the bank having just been born essentially at the right time, and investing in property whilst it was cheap. They won’t ever sell it now that it’s clearly a cash cow, exploiting the younger generation.

the quality of the landlord makes a huge difference. It really doesn’t matter if they own 1 property or 1000 in terms of their ability to be a good landlord.

the question should be do the number of rentals in the city reflect the demand for rentals in the city. The answer to that is almost always that there are not enough.

people need to rent. They will always need to rent. Even home owners may find themselves in need of brief forays into the rental market.

The elephant in the room that nobody wants to address 👏👏👏

Why? So many people need to rent for a variety of reasons. Students, young professionals, those saving for a house, those in the area for a short time, those who like the freedom, those who just don't care to buy or will never afford to buy. What dies it matter if the landlord owns one or 50 rentals?
And your argument about it preventing people from buying, again why dies it matter who owns the rentals? Say there are 100 rentals in one town, 50 owned by one firm, ten by absentee landlords, the rest by locals. If the owner d the 50 decides to release 25 on to the local market who do you think will buy them? Unless there are NO other properties on the market they are just as likely to be bought by another investor as a private person. And say they are bought by locals - Where are the people who were renting them going to live now??
I think there is an issue, probably in bigger cities with lots of new build flats, of buyers, mainly international, 'parking' their money there but not necessarily renting them out. Now these flats are for affluent people but it still removes stock from the market and those potential residents need to live somewhere.

If it has been on that long, the price is too high.

Thanks for that little nugget of joy, I lie in bed at night worrying myself stupid about this happening.

I thought that 1 in 10 labour MPs receive rental income.

Having a portfolio of rental properties is a business. Having even one is an investment. It only becomes wrong and unethical when various things apply such as:

-you are a slum landlord that doesn't make repairs and the property is unsafe
-you shove too many students into a tiny mouldy property and make them pay £££££ for the privilege
-you don't pay the appropriate tax on your income

It is worth remembering that people do need to rent properties. A family member tried to rent near where he works and there was nothing. Apart from a scummy place far away which was charging £1k for tiny shitty 1 bed flat in a crap area. Students need to rent properties. People getting divorced often rent for a while. People often rent between house purchases. There are so many reasons.

I think the rental industry is legitimate, but it does need far more regulation. Many landlords are abusing students, but doing so very cleverly within the confines of the law. Some landlords are decent people - they have one property that they rent out, they repair/maintain it and respond to any issues.

It's a difficult issue, but thinking that all landlords are evil is not really helpful.

I'm not a landlord.

Pressure on rentals comes from the demand.

The population keeps increasing, so demand keeps going up.

Say whaaat? I thought MN hated greedy landlords especially if they managed to acquire the houses in a tax efficient way? Maybe MN hates everyone...

The problem isn’t private landlords, one issue is the lack of social housing for longer term renters. If the private market was focused on the shorter term renters who might only live in an area for a couple of years and long term was covered by social housing there would be fewer issues.
Another is that available housing isn’t necessarily in the same place as available jobs. How do you spread the jobs out more evenly?

I’ve got some properties I rent out. All of them long term tenants of over a decade. They are all well maintained and rent hasn’t been increased for over 5 years on any of them. We have a 4 bed house that has had the same tenants who relocated for work with their children. He got sick and couldn’t work, the kids grew up and moved out and the couple live in their home now happily. We know we could get a lot more rent but its their home. When they thought the carpets needed replacing they rang DH and he told them to go choose what they wanted and we would pay. We’ve not done an inspection for years, but our electrician tells us the house is lovely and they have decorated it as they wish. If we were to sell up they would be able to afford only a one bed flat in our area now, and probably nobody would rent to them because he is on benefits and they have a lot of pets. So no. I’m not ashamed of being a landlord.

Further issues are those caused by houses not used full time- either short term lets (think Air BnB as one example) or second homes.

Can’t they do that themselves?

Sorry. I'm selling mine, albeit I'm only a small fish. Many of the landlords I know are selling theirs too. It isn't worth it anymore. Not because of finances, but because the government have now made it so hard to evict difficult tenants that the risk is too much to bear.

I, personally, am very grateful that my landlord has continued to own the home I am renting from her, rather than selling it.

I prefer not to buy a home right now, unless I have to, because I live in London and the stamp duty would be equivalent to 3-4 years worth of rent. Plus there would be the cost of financing the house. But I may not want to live her for much more than that. So renting is a much better deal for me than buying.

They have several properties, which means that they also have accumulated a good list of tradesmen who fix things effectively and quickly at a reasonable cost. Since most London houses are old, including the one I live in, things need to get fixed from time to time.

The fixable problem making access to housing so expensive is restrictive planning laws. If it were easier to build more houses, then the prices would end up going down.

The unfixable problem is that in every big city in the world, there are more jobs and opportunities, more people want to live there, and that drives prices up.

If we did not have portfolio landlords, only people who already have money could move to places like London, which would mean that the only young people who could move here and get onto the London job ladder would be young people who have enough money from their parents to buy. It is already difficult enough without adding that new difficulty.

So while some landlords are greedy and exploitative, taking inadequate care of their properties, some are fair and filling a very useful social purpose by providing housing to people who want to live somewhere that they cannot buy or do not wish to buy.

Not yet. DC is only a baby. Both DH and I come from poor backgrounds and want to try and make his life easier than ours was.