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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Problematic employee

63 replies

somenonsense · 21/11/2024 23:25

I am a manager of 10 people.

One employee takes up most of my time. She is emotionally immature and very entitled, despite being in her late 30s.

She was in charge of choosing her own workload, but ended up working extra hours and complained until HR agreed to extend her contract to full time pay over 4 long days. She is meant to work 8-6:30 every day.

She is meant to work 60% in the office, she comes in maybe once a month- always some excuse why she can't come in. "Headache" "repairman coming" "period pain" "child sick". She is 90% WFH.

She does however love to travel for conferences and events. She is the first to put her hand up for that and argues fiercely when it comes to say it's someone else's turn.

I could go on.

Anyway, my issue. I've managed her for three years. Every Ramadan she WFH, of course. But she gets fuck all done. She logs off by mid afternoon to start cooking a feast for her extended family. She is unproductive when she is online. She spends meetings complaining about how hungry she is, and throws a sulk if the team goes to lunch. She is always invited, but sits there with a face like a slapped arse and complains about how hungry she is.

She is not devout in any other way that I can see, beyond observing Ramadan. She drinks a lot etc.

This year I want to get ahead of it, and ask her to adjust her hours or take leave over Ramadan. I think she is taking the absolute piss getting paid full time pay while producing a few hours worth of work.

AIBU? Or racist? Do I need to accommodate this?

I feel like if she was less of a pain in the arse in general I would let it slide more, but I've had it and she needs some boundaries.

OP posts:
BoxOfCats · 21/11/2024 23:34

You need to focus the conversation on her productivity in general and how she comes across in meetings - do not make it about Ramadan.

So the conversation should focus on how she is not delivering the outputs expected. If she is in a meeting and behaving in a negative way you need to have a conversation with her immediately afterwards on why her behaviour was inappropriate and what standards are expected.

ilovesooty · 21/11/2024 23:35

How do you know how much she drinks?

ilovesooty · 21/11/2024 23:35

Duplicate

lazyarse123 · 21/11/2024 23:36

Can you speak to hr about her being paid but not doing the work.

It's very easy to accuse someone of racism especially when they know they are being cfs.
No advice but I agree something needs to be done.

MillyMichaelson · 21/11/2024 23:41

Ramadan is the last place I'd start with this one!

If she's not performing you need to manage that; performance conversations, agreed targets for office attendance (depending on the contract I guess) and warnings if she isn't able to meet expectations.

I'd steer away from Ramadan and focus on getting her to either a good place or...well, no place tbh.

ThatAgileGoldMoose · 21/11/2024 23:42

Religion being a protected characteristic I would be very hesitant to make anything about Ramadan, and instead focus on consistent performance.

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 21/11/2024 23:42

How have you let this go on so long?

Do you have a line manager? If so, you need to speak to them for advice or extra training.

If not, ask HR to help you.

For a start, if she's too ill to come into the office when she's supposed to, she should be taking sick leave, not working from home.

ThinWomansBrain · 21/11/2024 23:42

Had one of those -apparently I was discriminating against her because I said she couldn't finish at 3pm through Ramadan, and because I wouldn't let her have Eid off without using annual leave (her reasoning being that everyone else had Christmas off)
She then took most off Ramadan off sick (pretty much three days a week) as she felt faint because she hadn't eaten.

Lamelie · 21/11/2024 23:44

Don’t even think of connecting her performance to Ramadan.

Lavender14 · 21/11/2024 23:44

It's reasonable for adjustments to be made in respect of her faith over Ramadan. In my workplace people are not expected to provide the same levels of work while fasting and struggling with exhaustion. It's not your place to make any judgement on how or when or to what level she practices her faith.

Your issue is her overall attitude at all times of the year and her productivity levels. I would be trying to use a supportive approach to try to pin down exactly what her workload is and how her time is managed and how many tasks she takes on. I'd also be trying to use regular supervisions to help her reflect on her role and what she brings to the team. I'd look at any additional training that's maybe a bit more outside of the box that can be provided to the team to help them work more cohesively and to air issues. If she's taking more time to do less work surely her team would have frustrations with that so an appropriate, externally supported forum to explore your team dynamics might be helpful. I've worked on problematic teams and seen this done very well. If she's not achieving targets then you need to follow your organisational procedures around under performance. She needs clear feedback, with examples of what and why her attitude or performance is not up to par and clear guidance on what she could do to improve this and the impact that would have on her and her team. Under no circumstances would I be aligning any of that to her religion or how she performs over certain cultural or religious times. It should be very general and allow for temporary fluctuations over specific religious holidays. In my workplace we would never be expected to perform the same levels of work over Christmas/new years and that doesn't include a physical exertion.

Lavender14 · 21/11/2024 23:46

And if she's unwell and cannot come to the office I'd be asking her to start using those days as sick leave instead of wfh days and try to keep it in line with what is happening with the rest of your team. I'd also be trying to explore with her why she is having so many no shows in office and try to understand if there's something else happening in the background that's causing it.

MillyMichaelson · 21/11/2024 23:53

Lavender14 · 21/11/2024 23:44

It's reasonable for adjustments to be made in respect of her faith over Ramadan. In my workplace people are not expected to provide the same levels of work while fasting and struggling with exhaustion. It's not your place to make any judgement on how or when or to what level she practices her faith.

Your issue is her overall attitude at all times of the year and her productivity levels. I would be trying to use a supportive approach to try to pin down exactly what her workload is and how her time is managed and how many tasks she takes on. I'd also be trying to use regular supervisions to help her reflect on her role and what she brings to the team. I'd look at any additional training that's maybe a bit more outside of the box that can be provided to the team to help them work more cohesively and to air issues. If she's taking more time to do less work surely her team would have frustrations with that so an appropriate, externally supported forum to explore your team dynamics might be helpful. I've worked on problematic teams and seen this done very well. If she's not achieving targets then you need to follow your organisational procedures around under performance. She needs clear feedback, with examples of what and why her attitude or performance is not up to par and clear guidance on what she could do to improve this and the impact that would have on her and her team. Under no circumstances would I be aligning any of that to her religion or how she performs over certain cultural or religious times. It should be very general and allow for temporary fluctuations over specific religious holidays. In my workplace we would never be expected to perform the same levels of work over Christmas/new years and that doesn't include a physical exertion.

Being supportive and asking her to reflect is very lovely and everything, but she's an absolute skiver!

How the hell have you not dealt with any of this in three whole years?!

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 21/11/2024 23:58

How the hell have you not dealt with any of this in three whole years?!

That's what I'd like to know.

This woman isn't the only employee who needs to be taken to task.

Invisimamma · 22/11/2024 00:03

Don't make this about Ramadan, it's months away anyway.

Make her objectives really clear, what she needs to achieve and by when. Put in some review points, address it if she's not meet expectations. If she's not working her hours address that too, before Ramadan!

This will be affecting morale in the rest of your team if they're feeling like they're carrying her or that she's getting away with poor performance while they put the effort in.

SapphOhNo · 22/11/2024 00:08

Yeah I think you come across as an ineffective manager here. She's done this for so long as you haven't dealt with it.

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:35

I agree I've been an ineffective manager. 100%

I've signed up for executive coaching.

The problem is putting these boundaries in now, when she has established a pattern of behaving like this and feel entitled to the 'flexibility'

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:38

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 21/11/2024 23:58

How the hell have you not dealt with any of this in three whole years?!

That's what I'd like to know.

This woman isn't the only employee who needs to be taken to task.

To be honest it's because she literally cries and accuses people of bullying her a lot.

I've had a lot going on personally the last few years with miscarriages and other things and it's always been easier to let things slide. If any other employee said 'I've terrible period pain, is it ok if I work from home today?' I'd say 'no problem' that's reasonable.

But she takes that and runs with it to staying home every time she has her period without asking.

I just haven't had the bandwidth to deal with her. I also like having flexibility available to the rest of the team when they need it, so I've been reluctant to put in hard rules either.

She's the only one taking the piss

OP posts:
somenonsense · 22/11/2024 01:39

ilovesooty · 21/11/2024 23:35

How do you know how much she drinks?

Because we have work functions where she gets incredibly drunk.

OP posts:
Guest100 · 22/11/2024 01:47

Talk to HR and start hold her accountable. Don’t make it about Ramadan. She either does her job or is fired.

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 09:36

Guest100 · 22/11/2024 01:47

Talk to HR and start hold her accountable. Don’t make it about Ramadan. She either does her job or is fired.

How do you hold someone accountable when they always have an excuse?

OP posts:
MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 09:43

Because they have actual tangible responsibilities surely? And a contract?

If they are not adhering to those, you either get them to start or issue warnings if they don't, which will eventually result in dismissal if she digs her heels in.

For the love of god though, don't touch Ramadan.

MillyMichaelson · 22/11/2024 09:44

It sounds to me like you need support as her manager @somenonsense - someone higher up or in HR needs to be made aware and advise you through the process. This is part of being a leader and it doesn't sound like you know how to approach it, and they need to help you with your skills gap.

YabbaDabbaDooooo · 22/11/2024 09:44

If any other employee said 'I've terrible period pain, is it ok if I work from home today?' I'd say 'no problem' that's reasonable.

It's not reasonable. If they're due in the office that day and can't come in, that's what their sick leave is for.

To be honest, you should be asking all these questions to your manager, not a parenting website.

Or recognise that you've let things slide for so long into this mess, there's no point in changing it until you've had your training and become a competent manager.

When is your training booked for?

JurassicPark4Eva · 22/11/2024 09:50

somenonsense · 22/11/2024 09:36

How do you hold someone accountable when they always have an excuse?

Because excuses aren't always acceptable for piss poor performance.

She doesn't get to go to conferences as a right, they are a privilege and I'd be stopping that immediately - "thanks for offering Jane, but I'm conscious you've not been well recently / have lots of things on your plate with sick child and so I'm not going to allow you to do extra hours for now".

"Sorry to hear you have a headache so want to WFH, which days are you going to do in the office to make up for it?"

"Sorry toddler is sick, am I booking you off as unpaid parental leave / carers leave or annual leave?"

"Jane, why did you log off at lunchtime yesterday? Oh you're prepping for breaking your fast? When are you making up the hours you didn't work?"

And if she fails to make up those things you hold her to account. Every. Single. Time.

PoupeeGonflable · 22/11/2024 10:00

You should have managed her out by now
Set her performance target
Set minimum times she HAS to be in the office
You know what you have to do - you are a manager. But it appears you do not seem to be prepared to manage her because you can foresee the issues - you know what these are and you have alluded to them. I suspect you think that if you try to manage her effectively, she will 'play the race card' or something similar and you don't want to deal with it.
Either step up and manage her appropriately, or get in touch with HR and ask them to deal with her. Otherwise, the rest of your team is going to become very pissed off both with her and you.