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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

UK made missiles launched into Russia

33 replies

Bogginsthe3rd · 20/11/2024 17:17

UK made missiles launched into Russia today. AIBU to think it would make more sense on a geopolitical level to wait until Trump was in place to determine major changes to UK strategy?

OP posts:
ConstanceM · 20/11/2024 22:47

If we are sending UK bombs to stop tyranny and indiscriminate killing by Russia, then why aren't we bombing Israel at the same time, whom have inflicted far worse on the Palestinian people's, you can't call Ukraine victims of terror whilst diminishing the lives of Palestine men, women and children. Israeli genocide incorporates a strategy of ethnic cleansing. It's a land grab the same as Putin. Call this barbarity out. Genocide is not self defence. How many grandparents, women and children were members of Hamas? Not 45,000+ massacred. History will judge us with real shame. Did we flatten Dublin, Cork as a collective punishment for the IRA atrocities, no we did not.
Think for yourselves people and not the lobby.

Sometimeswinning · 20/11/2024 22:51

localnotail · 20/11/2024 22:16

Ukraine is an independent country, with its own unique culture, language and identity. Its not up to you, or Trump, or Putin to decide whether Ukraine deserves to exist, and whether it should give up parts/ all of it to a violent murderous psycho who happened to be its neighbour. Ukraine's history is colourful, there was a lot of stuff happening in the past, but Ukrainians are not Russian, they are not part of Russia and they dont belong to Russia, ok? Maybe write it down somewhere.

I think a few Ukrainians would disagree with you. Especially those with a Russian parent/grand parent/spouse and who speak Russian as their first language! It’s around 20% I believe. Also I’d be interested to know how many Ukrainians want to keep fighting for a victory.

localnotail · 21/11/2024 00:25

LoremIpsumCici · 20/11/2024 22:21

I agree Ukraine is not Russia now, but the poster pointed out that there is a long historic connection between Russia and Ukraine that Putin is capitalising on to justify his invasion with intent to annex. That’s not their opinion, it is historic fact.

Ukraine for centuries was part of russia

The original capital city of Russia was Kyiv- ie Kievan Rus.
The Russian empire expanded from Ukraine.
Most of history, Ukraine has been part of Russia.

The original capital city of Russia was Kyiv- ie Kievan Rus.

You are talking about a period before Russia and Ukraine even existed. Over 1500 years ago. By your logic, England is part of France etc etc.

localnotail · 21/11/2024 00:35

Sometimeswinning · 20/11/2024 22:51

I think a few Ukrainians would disagree with you. Especially those with a Russian parent/grand parent/spouse and who speak Russian as their first language! It’s around 20% I believe. Also I’d be interested to know how many Ukrainians want to keep fighting for a victory.

I am Ukrainian with one parent who is Russian. I speak Russian as my first language, always did growing up, all my family speaks Russian, all my friends - everyone. Even now, when I speak to Ukrainians here, in London, I speak Russian, and its not a problem. Since the independence, the official government language in Ukraine is Ukrainian (imagine that!). If I stayed in Ukraine, I would be speaking Ukrainian as the only reason I never did is the total forced russification of Ukraine during the USSR times, so know the language but never had much practice using it. Russian is not banned in everyday life, you can use it if you want. This whole issue is made up Russian propaganda.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/11/2024 00:36

localnotail · 21/11/2024 00:25

The original capital city of Russia was Kyiv- ie Kievan Rus.

You are talking about a period before Russia and Ukraine even existed. Over 1500 years ago. By your logic, England is part of France etc etc.

No, I am not at all.

Russia literally means land of the Rus, and it was the name for the entire country of the Kievan Rus while it existed. The term Kievan Rus is a relatively modern term invented in the 1900s to describe the historical period when the capital of Russia was Kiev (now spelled Kyiv, but the same city).

localnotail · 21/11/2024 00:39

1dayatatime · 20/11/2024 22:43

@localnotail

"Ukraine is an independent country, with its own unique culture, language and identity. Its not up to you, or Trump, or Putin to decide whether Ukraine deserves to exist, and whether it should give up parts/ all of it to a violent murderous psycho who happened to be its neighbour."

All true and I would add that it's not up to Ukraine to decide whether or not the US supplies military aid to Ukraine or not. It's the US Government to decide how they spend US taxpayers money.

If the European countries disagree with the US pulling military aid then of course they are entitled to make up the aid shortfall by increasing their own spending as a percentage of GDP on the military. Of course they won't because that will mean either higher taxes or lower spending on other areas when what they really want is for US taxpayers to foot the bill.

Weapons aid is a political issue and I agree, each country decide how to proceed - based on how they want the world to shape up, and on who they allies are.

But I disagree with politicians forcing Ukraine to give up its land. Especially knowing that the majority of people on occupied territory will suffer and probably will be killed off/ deported.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/11/2024 00:48

The territory that is now the nation Ukraine was part of Russia until conquered by the Mongols in 1240. The Russian Tsars then reconquered it in 1667 and it was part of the Russian empire. From the Russian Revolution and during WWI, Ukraine attempted full independence but lost becoming a founding republic of the USSR in 1921 until 1991 when the USSR collapsed.

Golden407 · 22/11/2024 08:40

thingymijigi · 20/11/2024 17:52

The missiles won't be going anywhere near Russian cities, it's purely to defend Ukraine and within international law. Once Trump is in a negotiated settlement will take place. In the meantime, there will be an increase in activity on both sides so both Ukraine and Russia are in the best position possible for negotiations.

I think you're over optimistic regarding Trumps ability to bring about peace. Putin has been very clear negotiations can't even begin until the West and Ukraine recognises Russian sovereignty over Crimea and the four captured Oblasts, plus guarantees the remainder of Ukraine remains permanently neutral. How can Trump agree to that and claim any sort of victory?

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