Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

Because teaching does not have the degree and kind of self-regulation associated with a profession

We’ll have to agree to disagree then.

We have a trainee currently who has not turned up on time ONCE. She has been off sick one day a week since she started. The university are not being helpful.

Last year I had a trainee who refused to submit lesson plans on time, once turned up to the lesson not having read the extract she was meant to be teaching, lessons were utter pandemonium. It took 3 months to fail her.

I have not had a "good" trainee (other than teach first) in about 5 years. And the existing teachers (who are stretched as it is) are the ones expected to deliver the training and pick up the pieces for no extra pay or time allowances.

I think part of the issue is that students in school are not allowed to fail. Look at the number of posts about "my DC was late handing in their coursework/dissertation etc and it's not fair that they are penalised" and because there is SO much pressure on schools to make sure results are as high as possible, there are no consequences. The demands of exams are high so students are often given the answers to learn (very little initiative needed) and regurgitate. And then are adrift in the professional world where this isn't how it works.

@Shoppedatwoolworths, I don't disagree with anything you say about what you do as teacher. How could I, I did all this 40+ years in the UK and Australia.

It's how teaching is regarded and treated, which in the UK is not that of a profession. It's little better In Victoria - I can't speak for the other states and territories.

I have been lucky to have lots of incredibly bright, hard working graduates over the last 10 years but… the thing I’ve noticed is a big rise in some of them lacking resilience. I’ve seen lots of tears, hyper perfectionism and fear of taking risks or making mistakes. This side of things is just as counterproductive I think so even among some of the top grads, there are some behaviours emerging in the workplace that aren’t entirely helpful.

Well, respectfully, that's nonsense. I work in a large school with 60 other highly-qualified teachers and what we do is very much a profession. Of course there is regulation and here in Ireland, the PME required for secondary teaching is a two year masters on top of a degree. I used to teach in England and it's just as much a profession there. Why do people come on mumsnet spouting obvious BS?

@echt what do you mean teaching doesn’t have the same degree and self regulation for a profession? Your obvious disdain is another reason why excellent teachers have left and schools will be left with “bottom feeders” as you call them.

Our trainee accountants are still excellent. The only thing that surprised me was that one of them had got through an accountancy degree but still didn't know how to use excel.

Thats a slippery slope to be on, lower the standards at every generation and where do you end up?.

We get that with the young porters. They are not with the NHS but a separate company. They are always late, sit around on their phones all day. It boils my piss that two of the NHS porters have illnesses (one has heart problems, one had cancer) and they work.

Yes it is a management problem too and one porter is only now being disciplined. Their management do not come on site very often.

The first thing they are supposed to do is sweep outside. One should start doing that at 7am after he covers the front desk but he waits until the NHS porter comes in later!

I also knew you were going to say teachers. One of friends has mentored trainees and NQTs/ECTs for years.

The last time we spoke about it, she said very much the same that the quality of the trainee teachers coming through wasn't the same as it had been previously and for the same reasons.

I suppose there are two explanations.

Younger generations are encouraged to prioritise their MH and not be run down into the ground so they are saying no to things they consider unreasonable.

But, also, when a profession has been undermined and devalued for so long for various reasons, at some point, the people who have other options choose those other options.

I trained 20 years ago and there were a couple of people on my course I wouldn't have wanted around my children but, even then, it was almost impossible to fail your PGCE at least. I do know someone who failed their NQT year but they were dreadful.

I have the highest regard for teaching and am astonished that you've managed to infer otherwise. What on earth do think I was doing for 40+ years? Read my posts upthread.

My disdain is for those governments who have promoted the micromanagement and commodification of the work, as well as the "anyone can do it", the logical conclusion of the half-arsed "mum's army" and "Troops to teach" initiatives.

1970s education was massively dumbed down from the previous generations. I took mine in 1987 so went through a lax education system. GCSEs then reportedly got even easier than O levels. Idk if this is true. They have got a lot harder since the early 2000s. And the standard is higher than when I took O levels. The kids currently taking GCSEs and A levels went through a readjustment due to Michael Gove overhauling education. My dd went from year 2 to year 3 and effectively the teachers had to take dd up to what was previously year 4 work so missed a year.

See my post above for a little more info. And others on the thread saying the same thing. We know. We know kids, who have recently been or are going through it right now because we are parents or teachers.

The thing I have noticed is that trainees and new teachers just aren't quite ready to adult and they do need guiding through that. Recently had one who was nearly 30 but was floored by very simple adulting situations in their personal life like getting their car serviced. I think because they've relied heavily on someone else (parents, teachers lecturers) fixing everything they need more guidance on how to do things in the workplace. I know that in my A level classes there are lots of adjustments for 'suspected' SEND needs I have to provide such as printed powerpoints for multiple students, nothing that pushes the student out of their comfort zone like on the spot questions, lots of movement breaks to cope with the demands of being asked to do something like read a page of a textbook, constant deadline extenstions and the expectation I give up my lunchtimes to reteach them one to one for things they've missed due to anxiety. I don't believe in many (not all) cases these adjustments are necessary or even helpful. At that age students need to be able to push out of their comfort zone a bit and press through challenges, otherwise they won't have any resilience when they reach the workplace. I think from what I've read on here that this continues in University.

Well, the teachers are also a product of society and their own upbringing. I agree with the wider point though, that basic classroom discipline should be a nonnegotiable rather than something to be “strived for”.

For that though I’d put the blame on successive governments trying to micro manage lessons, the over emphasis of “my child is special and has XYZ rights” culture (with no mention of responsiblities) which has put parents and teachers at odds, the over emphasis on classes needing to be “fun” (often at the expense of focus and effectiveness it seems to me) and above all a macro culture of tolerating bad behaviour in the classroom.

I’d personally like an experiment in early secondary school of setting by (as necessary) primarily setting by student behaviour/willingness to learn and only secondarily by ability. After several years of that I’d expect to see drastic improvement in classroom focus.

I agree with you but the root of the problem, to me, is soft fluffy parenting who don’t discipline, parents who can’t be rsed to discipline and/or parent(s) who are working flat out and are too knckered to discipline effectively. Children who grow up without boundaries, rules and consequences become adults who have no idea how society functions so can’t slot into their place in the hierarchy. You can love your child to pieces and still have exp stations of how they will behave; it’s not rocket science; is it?
Our productivity as a nation is woefully low; if people made more effort in the workplace taxes could be lower (higher company profits) and there could be more jobs as those company profits improved, simple economics.

Civil service too. The quality (and number of those applying) of fast streamers has dropped significantly in recent years. Some are still excellent but there’s a significant number who can’t get through the week without taking a mental health day, a duvet day (especially when there’s a deadline that they’re about to miss). Wanting to work from home, being uncontactable (“It was a lovely day so I went for a long walk.”), lack of work ethic.

I think it started before Covid and the lockdown/snowflake response to Covid was part of the whole reduction in resilience and expecting the world to be a perpetually ‘safe space’ . It pandered to anxiety and this now has knock on effects of those over-anxious people being validated and enabled.

I think you're being a bit unreasonable. Ime some graduates are keen, eager and ready to work hard and learn. Others are not. Some are entitled and lazy, others simply lack confidence and need the right encouragement.

Young people are all different, it's always been like that imo

I think we’re heading towards a new era of schooling. Where anyone half responsible will be babysitting a class of students who’ll all be engaging in online learning. The system is broken. It’s producing broken people and sending them out into the workforce. Crappy candidates isn’t just reserved for teaching; it’s happening across nearly every profession.

I think both him and his dw have an empathy bypass and should be ashamed of themselves.

Imagine a health professional doing the same.
My friends dh had a similar job and often got called out to repair a boiler for a vulnerable client.

I’m an ex teacher and not remotely surprised that the quality of trainers has dropped. It must be impossible to attract the right calibre of people when pay and working conditions are so awful.

There are fewer and fewer young people available to take up these positions. The best ones can pick and choose. Organisations who can attract the best have to be flexible to keep them.

Professions like teaching and nursing will continue to suffer.

You are right. I’ve had amazing students I’ve mentored. But the horror stories are crazy. Across all industries, it used to be something like 1 in 50 new recruits were duds, now it seems like it’s 1 in 5!!! I’ve made those statements up btw, but they’re probably very accurate 😜

Ha, I work with civil servants sometimes. I realise they are supposed to be generalists, but some of the questions/assumptions they put on me (a specialist) are hilarious. "So is x [established scientific principle, think increasing CO2 in atmosphere or similar,] actually real then?"

I had to take a very deep breath before replying. But then I find people's lack of curiosity generally baffling. So perhaps they'd not felt they could ask before!

I see it from all sides as I work for a provider and have a dd who is teaching (secondary).

From what's written on this thread I can understand why she seems so well thought of and has been told she'll be a member of SLT by the time she's 30.