Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

His "peers" who started on the scheme at the same time are all highly motivated, resilient, self reliant etc. Some of the online aptitude tests were to test those skills, i.e. "impossible" problems or online games where you can't get it right

Kobayashi Maru, the no-win situation. It's not about whether you fail, everyone fails sometime. It's about how you handle failure.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them arrogant. Maybe you could discuss matters sensibly without making personal attacks? I hope you are not a teacher.

It isn't hard for a school to have a sensible uniform policy and stop complaining to parents every time their child does something wrong. If teachers didn't have to spend all their time policing uniform and calling parents about every tiny transgression, it would free up a lot of time. Anyway my point is that if you micromanage someone (and their parents!) at school, they will need micromanaging at work.

And actually I don't think my view IS the majority view - if it were, it would be happening, quite obviously!

It's not about whether you fail, everyone fails sometime. It's about how you handle failure

you clearly don't work in the legal profession. Failure is not allowed.

With regard to the posters talking about parents phoning university, I did this precisely once when DD was taken in to hospital suddenly and wouldn’t be able to make her meeting with the tutor next day - or any day soon as she had emergency surgery. I simply phoned to explain the situation and point out that she was in no fit state to phone herself. That is about the only circumstance it is fine for a parent to get involved!

Oh yes I agree with the overprotectedness. In fact earlier this week I was talking to a new young starter of mine about childhood and mentioned that in the 1970s we just used to roam free on the streets, it was me and my three friends on wonky bikes no helmets from morning til dusk in the summer hols. (OK not saying the lack of helmets was good but you know what I mean.) No structured play, no directions, but we created our own wonderful worlds that kept us busy and using our imaginations and social skills all day.

He could not get over the fact that we were out on the streets all day under age 10 without adults, and were using bikes without supervision. No mobiles to check in with parents, the rule was we came home at dusk. He could not comprehend it! Like, he literally kept getting stuck on it. He was agog. It was totally over his head.

Sad!

For all those mentioning parents involved in Uni matters, try recruiting with those who insist they should come along to interviews too

If anyone had told me about this before it happened I'd have thought they were joking, and their reactions when told no were no joke at all

I grew up in London in the late 1970s/80s and none of my friends were allowed to wander freely until about the age of 14 and then it was only to the shops.
There was quite a bit of stranger/danger about then

In terms of going to University Open Days, I think it's more a matter of being able to discuss the facilities/accommodation etc with DC and give a second opinion (if asked).
Obviously NOT to talk to tutors etc!!

Nope.
It seems the teachers chose to use the "1001 Ways to micromanage children's behaviour" to handle the students, employing terms like "dysregulated".😆🙄

Pop psychology has no place in schools' administrative toolbox.

Ah well. Different strokes for different folks. I grew up in a northern city. We did have a perv expose himself to us once. I have a photographic memory of it so I suppose it must have been vaguely traumatic, I was about 8, I recall vividly he was wearing black and had this really sheepish grin. We chased him on our bikes shouting insults. He ran!

But that is precisely what's happened.

And 'kicking off' because they don't want to do what they've been asked to do or because they're bored has been reframed as 'emotionally dysregulated' which has the air of a psychiatric/psychological term to it when it means exactly the same thing - someone having a 'big/extreme' reaction which is perceived as disproportionate to the emotional stimuli or experiencing mood swings.

In which case, anyone losing their temper and ergo unable (or unwilling) to control their emotions is 'emotionally dysregulated'.

Domestically violent men, people involved in road-rage, someone screaming at a retail worker or being violent because their yoghurt was unavailable or they were denied a refund. Teenagers are emotionally dysregulated with their mood swings and slamming doors, storming off and shouting because they've been asked to put their clothes away for the 10th time and say that Mum/Dad is getting at them.

But 'emotional dysregulation' sounds like it's part of an illness or disorder which equals the person not being in control of it or able to be held responsible for it.

And that's where it's all got confused and unhelpful.

That's interesting, maybe London is different? My experience was nearer that of @GiveMeSpanakopita

Although, I'm not so sure about under 10, but we were certainly out doing stuff on our when we started at secondary school at 11. This was in the mid 70s

My DD started a university teacher training course specialising in Maths and was pretty appalled by the standard of student there. Many had qualified for the course by taking Access courses and some were quickly thrown off after literacy and numeracy tests. However many of those who stayed were clearly barely capable of running their own lives and turning up for lectures, let alone training to be a teacher. They used all sorts of excuses to avoid attending placements.
DD stuck it out for a couple of terms but eventually left, totally disillusioned and feeling that the teaching degree was being devalued. Many other competent and capable students apparently did the same.

Emotional dysregulation is not “pop psychology” - it is well documented in medical literature and is perfectly applicable to a minority of children whose brains process certain information in an atypical way, which can manifest outwardly as “bad behaviour”. There are many studies on how factors such as neurodivergence, disability and trauma affect the brain in this way. I’ve only heard it used in schools to describe those experiencing genuinely distressing symptoms beyond their control (eg autistic meltdowns), rather than teenage temper tantrums or poor discipline. IME most teachers know the difference, but many people fortunate enough never to have experienced this sort of dysregulation themselves — or seen it up close — often fail to understand this.

My daughter has just finished A levels and started at a Big 4 company. She has just completed her first exam and the worry about not passing and losing the opportunity and job was big, she passed which is great, but has another 4 years of regular hurdles to jump to keep progressing.

@KindlyOldGoat I think it's true that someone who hasn't seen a meltdown doesn't really understand it. On a parenting show recently I saw a parent describe their kid having a meltdown when to me they seemed mildly upset and acting up. Nothing like when my autistic child gets distressed and screams till their throat is sore, is shaking with anger and tears coming down their face, hitting anyone who comes near him and throwing everything in his room around. And I'm sure other parents experience much worse.

There’s a thread where a young mum is hand wringing as her mil tells her two year old not to be silly. It means her feelings aren’t being validated or something. This is the end result of that type of thing.

If not arrogant, then its close relative - patronising… No, I am not a teacher.

As for micromanagement, as has already been pointed out on this thread, school staff are criticised on a daily basis for not informing parents of every tiny incident that has happened in school that day. Imvho, this is because parents get used to expecting huge amounts of detail from nurseries and pre-schools, and too many then carry that expectation on into primary and secondary schools, thus getting hugely upset if their child tells them they, eg, bumped heads with another child that day, and why didn’t they get a phonecall and medical letter (because they were sitting next to each other other in assembly at the time and there is no way this incident will have caused them any report-worthy harm whatsoever…)? The fact is, dealing with the public is never simple.

And parents who do not get their way and do want to micromanage are also the parents who make formal complaints and make FOI requests. All of which are phenomenally time consuming to deal with.

Failure may not be “allowed,” but it happens all the time, in every walk of life, as people like Andrew Malkinson would attest, along with most people who have had dealings with the legal profession.

I don’t. I used to see this all the time with school leavers when they started work. They think the world owes them a living, and anytime you try and give them constructive criticism you’re “disrespecting them”. And don’t get me started on the smallest thing that provokes a mental health crisis. I appreciate people have mental health issues (I have been on anti depressants myself), but there are too many people who use it as an excuse to not do something and are just snowflakes.

I’d also agree there’s a strong link between pt job as a teen and likely to be a good junior member of staff. I need to advertise a junior role again and am trying to incorporate must have had a real paid job as last time we were inundated with applicants with degrees and masters and not a sniff of paid work. That said we have a current junior member of staff who absolutely blew us away in interview and is an amazing member of the team.
I volunteer as a leader with guides and we are increasingly finding mums trying to micromanage eg x needs to be in a group with y, y needs to share a room with A. Email that B was sad because some minor thing happened eg didn’t get a turn at a game.
My own dc had friends in sixth form not allowed to work or use public transport or visit a city an hour away. Yes the parents were expecting them to cope at uni.

I think parents don't even realise the extent to which they micromanage. There's always a reason to justify why they take their child to for example a university open day and how they aren't like other parents who interfere. I hear friends talk about their children and they seem to know every detail of their lives, there's no boundaries.

I also think it is partially because adults still live with their parents and live together with their partners and parents. That also prolongs indepence.

But it is not just parents. If you think your child can do x or y that doesn't really matter if society/surrounding social circles find it unacceptable. My friend recently got a call from their school because they were worried about her daughter cycling to school. They said that they can't really do anything about it cause they couldn't find anything to forbit it but wanted to flag either. Also schools spend so much time micromanaging over stupid uniforms and acceptable appearance that it will appear to the students as something that actually matters in the future.