Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

About 25 years ago I worked with a girl who had had a very privileged childhood. She was the child of the ambassador to Japan and had spent all the childhood in private schools and a very cosseted lifestyle. However her parents could see this was a potential problem so made her work when she got back to the U.K. She worked 3 days a week in the shop I worked in and all weekend in a supermarket. She was lovely and worked hard but was a bit clueless about real life. She had no idea why people would use the £2.50 off their shopping rather than save it up and get money off a skiing holiday.

It doesn’t help that the new crops are being pampered by the employers

Sorry, @ASongOfRiceAndPeas, but more fool them

Very obviously newcomers need and deserve training and a certain amount of support to start with, but if you're talking about pandering to silliness then they're making a very poor choice and perhaps should be making better use of probation

In employment legal practice in the UK we are seeing growing numbers of cases concerning third-party engagement/involvement with employers 'on behalf of' employees.

In some cases, statutory law and/or human rights legislation provides for an appropriate adult to be nominated as a key contact depending on an individual's needs and level of agency.

However, employers are increasingly recognising the burden of time and liability associated with, for example, parents of adults who attempt to intervene in the employment relationship and fail to understand the principles of relevant legislation, including the GDPR, in this situation.

Agreed and would add whatever age a brain is ‘fully cooked’ is not binary. Do whether it’s 18 or 25 its not that individuals can’t function at all before that.

Yes the world is different but interesting my parents generations were ‘old’ when they married at 23 (born mid 40’s). Mum had many friends married, working, mortgage and kids in late teens early 20’s. Don’t think we’re suggesting all boomers had advanced brain development.

@Lanneederniere sorry if being thick

do you mean employers are having problems with employees' parents... or that parents are wanting to be involved in cases their adult children have brought against employers? Thanks.

Don’t think we’re suggesting all boomers had advanced brain development.

The majority left school at 15/16, though, and had to learn how to behave in the workplace from then on, instead of at 18-22, as is the case now. And very few of their parents would have had cars, or it was one car that father took to work so not available for chauffeuring services, so they'd have grown up walking cycling or taking the bus, instead of being driven everywhere. And they'd have walked themselves to and from primary school from an early age. All opportunities to develop independence at an earlier age than many children do today.

The former, that employers are recognising the burden of time and liability involved with third parties such as parents intervening on behalf of their children. They are seeking to address this proactively by including clauses in their employment contracts to prevent their involvement by agreement with the employee, even if they are listed as NOK.

@Lanneederniere thank you. That's interesting ... the "arrested development" thing has been going on for a while now IMHO but I didn't think these parents would be following their offspring in workplaces.

I think what I see as arrested development is probably the norm now.

You're right - I left home at 20, and was married at 22. It was the norm back in the 1980's. That said, I left school at 16 and started work alongside night school for professional exams. I also worked in part time jobs from 14 so this prepared me for the world of work and all of this was considered normal for most young people at that time.
I'm wondering that raising the school leaving age to 18 along with kids being persuaded into university for another 3 years, is infantilising our young people and unintentionally holding them back at a time when they need to be work-ready and face the world.🤔

There is a reason every functional society gives teens and even tweens big increases in real responsibility, and very firm social feedback.

That is such an important point about the social feedback and it seems to be barely present now.

Worst case scenario it can end up quite scary without. Groups of for instance adolescent boys are quite scary unchecked and with no boundaries, and this was a huge issue in the area I used to live, where it was sport to torment our suburb by booting our doors, throwing rocks and eggs at the houses and threatening people in the street. And there just didn't seem to be anything to be done about it. No consequences, even the police seemed helpless.
That can't be right in a normally functioning society, can it? Surely youths should be steered by older men?

I get what you’re saying but my DC walked to school without me from Y5 in primary - without a phone. Shocking I know. That was low risk for us but read any thread on MN and there’s outrage a 10-11 year old would do that.

You might not be able to easily get part-time work at 15/16 but there’s volunteering and all sorts of other things to learn how to behave.

So whilst there are generational differences, opportunities still exist, but parents won’t allow it.

'Didn't meet their needs', is an expression I keep hearing now but suspect is doing more heavy lifting than was meant.

I very much agree with your sentiments.

"I only went to one open day when I was in 6th form and I went on my own"

Perhaps I'm older but I don't remember them as "open days", they were very much interviews.

I applied to UCL, Warwick and, I have no idea why, UEA. I can't remember if I applied elsewhere - it was so long ago (1983).

Yes, we got a tour of the campus, but each visit also included an interview. I can't imagine what they would have thought if I had brought along one of my parents for the interview (or something like an emotional support animal).

My youngest recently started at university. I joined a parents' support group on fb for the university just to see what kind of ridiculous things some parents would need 'support' with and it didn't disappoint!

The whole group can be best categorised as an exercise in "tell me you failed to prepare your child for adulthood without telling me you failed to prepare your child for adulthood'.

I'd love to share some of the highlights... But there have been parents who have complained about the amount of self directed learning their child has to do and asking who parents should contact at university if they want to discuss how their child is getting on. And lots of parents fussing about little things that 18 year olds should be more than capable of doing.

Seemingly, these 18 year olds are capable of getting into university but not capable of booking a taxi, finding a local takeaway, using the laundrette, collecting a parcel from the designated area, sorting out a lost key, finding a part time job, reading a bus/train timetable, cooking a simple meal or even speaking to another adult.

Except that, i suspect most of them are but have never been given the chance.

My sister in law works in admissions at a different university and said that some of the things parents phone up about is ridiculous.

It wouldn't even occur to me to contact my children's universities or employer.

What probably happened was that your DD's behaviour was totally out of proportion to the acutal issue she was perceiving, she no doubt WAS told in first a nice way and then a firm way to calm down, was probably disruptive to everyone around her, may well have pulled a member of SLT away from the 5 minutes that they had to shove their lunch down their throats and just generally caused chaos by letting her own emotions run away with her. The teachers will understand that this sometimes happen with young kids when they get dysregulated but they DO have a responsibilty to let parents know when things have got out of hand and the usual strategies to de-escalate the situation didn't work. Especially if this isn't the first time this has happened.

I wish teachers would spell it out to parents what a pain in the arse their child has actually been that day. Instead they have to be all nicey nicey to the parent and try to put it in a diplomatic way for fear of causing offence to the parent. Because half the time the reasons things like this happen is because parents have babied their children to within an inch of their lives and done everything for them. YOU may have just told your child to get over it but you'd be surprised at the number of parents who mollycoddle their child because they get in a strop at home if they want something doing for them.

She wasn't, she said whilst you might tell her to get over it, they have to share the information with both parents like you and those who are oblivious to how dramatic a reaction their children have had.

Your reaction is somewhat disproportionate, though.

i’m reading “The Status Game” by Will Storr and theres an interesting bit in there about a researcher going to 3 different ares of differing soci-economic status. What was interesting was that in the lower income neighbourhoods resilience was the focus but in the highest status socio-economic group children were basically taught to be both fragile and entitled.

Quite. And this is the reason teachers don't spell out to parents that their child has been a pain in the arse. Sensible parents will back the school up and reprimand the child too. Job done. The others will either take umbrage at the teacher for daring to find fault with the child's behaviour OR will complain that they were held back for a trivial inconsequential reason and wasted their time, which is exactly what you said, @Pusheen467 . Teachers CANNOT WIN.

I completely agree, there is also the fact that in the big accountancy firms the apprentices still have college placements and have to pass exams and if they fail they are likely to be asked to leave. There is a 50% drop out/dismissal rate in year 1 in some firms, it is highly competitive and very stressful juggling office work and also college work.

I don’t mind if a teacher pulls me aside to tell me dd was being a pain (not happened yet). I’d rather know if she was being a sod at school so I could clarify my expectations around her being able to manage herself. Happy for the teacher to deal with it to their own satisfaction too. I expect her to develop some self discipline and be able to manage in a group environment, if a teacher feels the need to raise her behaviour I would take it seriously.

I think the problem is when parents don’t think it’s their job to reiterate appropriate behaviour or complain about their child being disciplined at all.

Yup my sibling went through this in big4, it’s rigorous, sibling now manages other people and uni students are patchier than the school leavers. Think the school leavers are just hungrier tbh.

I've made sure my ds knows about and experienced what actual work is and was delighted that he landed a local apprenticeship, jobs being hard to come by in these parts. However, this apprenticeship is a pisstake in so many ways; using 'workers' aged beyond 'youth' paid £6.40 to carry out tasks unsupervised. This Company expects their Apprentices to live on site in mouldy caravans (ds doesn't as we live nearby) with Stand By Your Bed inspections and also to be fully in charge at night if something goes wrong with the visitors (mostly schoolchildren on residentials!).

Now I've told ds that I can't interfere as I'm his Mum but I'm happy to advocate as a 'union-type' rep if things get too bad. He's now decided to go to Uni instead and he's getting his applications together for a seasonal job (at NMW) meanwhile.

It's not the current generation of young people who are useless, it's the generation before who are. I'm an older DM in my 60s now and the rights my generation have fought for have been so taken advantage of by the generation below me they've lost their meaning.

Childhood has stretched to about age 25 now I think.