Trainees no longer ready for workplace

[Kukcoo]

I used to love having trainees allocated to us. They were so enthusiastic, hardworking and a breath of fresh air. It was great to see them develop.

The last few have acted like they're doing us a favour if they turn up by lunchtime because they could have called in sick for nothing. Seriously can't be bothered doing the basics and expect everything to be done for them. Little respect for anyone else and the huge support they're being given. Won't meet a deadline, because this would affect their mental health and basically impinges on their human rights.

They all still expect to qualify and will be passed by the provider unless they do something truly dangerous, but they won't have the real experience or skills to join the workplace and get on with a job.

I'm barely even a different generation, but wouldn't have dreamed of acting the way they do when I was learning and felt I had to prove myself. AIBU to expect standards to be the same?

I am a retired teacher now but at the college I was at we had an open day for people to sign up for different courses in the new school year.

My interview table was for 16 to 25 year olds, and a lad came up to me and sat down. I asked him for his school certificates and he handed me a certificate in art.

I asked him about English, Science and Maths as he wanted to do Engineering. He said that all through school he was told to sit at the back and behave, as he had behavioural issues.

He told me that he used to draw in class, so he began to be a very good artist. I agreed, but said that perhaps he should consider a career in commercial art etc.

He went to the student support desk and complained. Someone came to investigate, and when I pointed out that he didn't meet the entry requirements.

They said that they were paid £3,500 to have his bum on a seat in the college.
Since I taught Science Technology Engineering and Maths they said surely I could manage to bring him up to speed.

I am in secondary and can recognise a lot of what you say.

I run subject knowledge sessions for our SCITT and in fairness, my group are great and I enjoy working with them.

The ECT1 in my department (I'm HoD) is incredibly hard work though. Obviously, I absolutely expect to support and help him, but the level of handholding is ridiculous. He is also attached to my form and puts in zero effort with that.
However, I am told it's 'too early' for cause for concern 🙄

I agree. I manage a volunteer organisation and we have older teens who want to volunteer for school awards especially if they are applying to uni. The emails they send sometimes are wild. Eg just send a email with only their name. We are meant to assume this means they can come. Or they write "I can help" in the email title and no actual content in the email.

These are clever teenagers who are exected to do very well at school/uni so they are easily capable of writing "Hello X. I can volunteer to help in 2 weeks. From Sam" which in my mind is the bare minimum when sending an email?!!

I think today that is sadly the case. I do worry that our young people don't have the faintest idea about who they will be competing with globally. People who are willing to work hard to rise up the ranks. Indian and Nigerian students stand out.

I have reached a point where I agree with you. I'm 37. I have tried so hard to see the positives younger people bring in work but this past year has made me so alarmed.

I'm a doctor- a consultant in hospital medicine. I have Fy1s and Fy2s on my team who are aged about 23 or 24 and simply cannot manage work and life in the way I did not even that long ago. Many are exempt from certain shifts due to anxiety, neurodiversity etc. They need to be given direct and specific instructions for everything and the only ones who will take.the initiative to e.g. start doing some investigations are the older ones who did medicine as a postgraduate degree. When I was an F1 it was absolutely my job to know the patients like the back of my hand. When the boss asked for a result I knew it, I took the notes and took pride in doing it well. As a consultant I now do all my own notes as the F1s simply refuse. Every question is answered by "ill just look it up on the computer". It's so depressing and the work my senior registrars end up doing basically covers a much more junior role. It worries me that these people will eventually be consultants, who will prop them up then?!

I work in a totally different industry that also uses trainees, I was one myself not too long ago and am experiencing the same thing. It doesn’t help that the new crops are being pampered by the employers.

Just on a positive note -
I have a trainee teacher in my class at the moment and she’s great!! Just didn’t want everyone tarred with the same brush as there’s still good ones out there!

They will need to show they meet the teaching standards for Universities to be allowed to pass them.

I imagine many will have dropped out by Christmas anyway.

I tried doing the Uni PGCE route over twenty years ago and no one told me I had to be in school other than for lessons I was teaching. It's usually only a couple of hours to begin with so they probably are doing that because no one tells you differently.

Second time around, about five years ago, I did a PGCE SCITT. It was clear that I needed to be by 8am and probably there until 4pm unless I had an appointment and went straight after the kids did. I was on placement with Uni PGCE people who clearly didn't get the expectations because no one had bothered to tell them. I'd agree though that they do seem to lack enthusiasm compared to SCITT trainees. It's actually a horrible way to learn the job.

I’m a late gen x (mid 40s), so far from a boomer. In no way does my organisation have authoritarian working styles or unreasonable expectations. It’s actually a fairly flat structure where even the directors sit alongside people of all levels within various departments. People are very much collaborative and everyone is respected and given autonomy to do their own job, with guidance when asked for. It’s pretty much standard 9.30-5.30 most of the time, people aren’t expected to sell their souls and are paid above market rate with great benefits.
Despite this, we’ve seen a marked difference in the recent recruits in the 21-26 age bracket. We have people a few years older who weren’t like that when they started. Your assessment of ‘boomer working styles’ is wrong.

They will need to show they meet the teaching standards for Universities to be allowed to pass them.

They'd have to be actually dead for a university to not pass them.

Also to the person who said that boomer standards at work are changing, I’m a millennial. My parents are boomers so it’s definitely not the case that I have an outdated attitude. I was not made to stand in a corner at work when I was a trainee but I respected my seniors and worked hard and took the initiative. It’s made me the professional I am today. I certainly didn’t go in thinking I knew it all, that I was able to refuse to follow instructions or could choose when to turn up.

My partner has trainees at his work who don’t do their work because they’re tired from gaming all night, tell him that they have nothing to learn from him because they know better and one group who went on a lads trip abroad and all called in sick. I don’t see anything collaborative about that.

I work in HR in an industry that’s notoriously hard to break into and very popular. 10 years ago people were super diligent on work experience/internships, always wanting to take the opportunity to learn. It’s a completely different story now, someone last week fell asleep, another person didn’t turn up because they were tired after a holiday…it goes on, constantly. The attitude towards work has changed hugely.

Has it ever occurred to some adults that authoritarian working styles, commonly associated with boomers, may be ineffective?

The boomers weren't authoritarian - they were the drivers of the rapid social changes in society from the 1960s onwards.

Exactly, as a generation they actually brought about a lot more equality in the workplace! But Gen Z have grown up with unimaginative memes calling anymore over the age of 30 Boomers and Karens, so I’m not surprised to see this sort of nonsense repeated.

Maybe no one told you because it really doesn't need to be said!
I'm stunned you think like this

Did you just rock up at school for 2 hours or something to teach and then go home? On placement?

I think one of the main issues as other PPs have said is the difference in parenting over the last 10 or so years (and then Covid on top). Parents often do not support teachers and are enraged if the teacher suggests their child has misbehaved. They want allowances, they give excuses and they will not accept it is their child’s fault. I am not including kids with SEN in this. I think this has led to many children knowing full well they won’t get into trouble or have any repercussions for not doing work or misbehaving and so they just do what the hell they like with their parents holding their hand all the way up to adulthood. They don’t learn to use their initiative or to take any kind of responsibility for their learning or for their actions. And this is what happens when these children become adults sadly.

@pollymere this was a work placement. Surely one of the first questions you ask is what the hours are? And classroom work will only be part of that?

Given that there is so much competition something is going very wrong at the selection stage then.

My organisation takes part in an intern programme for the summer (final year undergrads mostly) and has done for a few years. We are very progressive and a ‘young’ company. There’s a notable decline in quality and this year the intake was shocking; feedback shared by several other companies who participated.

Attitude, preparedness for the workplace, willingness to actually work, technical skills we’d expect to be covered at Uni - all massively lacking. We’ve chalked it up to likely being a tough few years as it’s a group that didn’t sit some exams and had a hard time through COVID but that was a few years ago now and we can’t keep saying that.

Bums on seats " universities " are anti- education.

Yes definitely. Not all, but most.
I have someone 2 years out of uni who does no planning and came crying into my room because I wasn't planning my lessons fast enough for her to teach them e.g. I'd have year 8 on Thursday so I'd plan their lesson Wednesday night, but she'd have them on the Wednesday. Most newly qualified teachers I'm noticing recently only know how to pull up a PowerPoint and deliver a lesson but can't read a scheme of work or plan a lesson. and moan about aspects of their job like duties and parents' evenings.

It's not just teaching though. My SIL is an architect and says those that come on the graduate scheme are completely work shy.

I get there is a worklife balance shift but when it comes down to not doing the job effectively at all, they do need to be reminded that they are selling their skills and time, we are not holding them hostage

Exactly 💯 this.

I remember when my DD started at her private school 2 years ago, and how much I really realised what a huge difference the level ot education and teaching made for her to thrive and be pushed to meeting her potential/having her needs met.

Granted, she is incredibly bright and academic anyway, she pushes herself regardless. But I know there was a chance that had she gone to the local state comprehensive, it might have been a totally different kettle of fish. It would probably have been fine, I'm sure, but she'd certainly never had been pushed in the way she is being now. I can tell the current curriculum seems at a higher level at the private school, as the French she has been taught aged 13 is developing on a par to what I learned at A' level.

We'd have been ok with her at the local state school, but I'm so grateful we've had the opportunity for a bursary and she has been so good at getting her scholarship for the private school though. It's certainly really beneficial for her.

I agree. I work in a school, we’ve got a trainee TA atm, she didn’t turn up today and 1 day last week. Her college tutor is always ringing asking if she’s in and was she on time etc. On her first day she sat out of sight in our reception area and said nothing. The school clerk went to the loo and noticed she was there an hour later. She sat there and would have seen other visitors coming in, introducing themselves and signing in etc.

Don't blame the universities for the state of teacher training. There's a lot of pressure from the government to accept unsuitable trainees (e.g. removing entry requirements for having any experience in schools, dropping literacy and numeracy skills tests etc https://schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-confirms-itt-applicants-wont-be-assessed-on-suitability-to-teach/ ) because there is such a critical shortage of teachers that anyone will do. Retaining them on the course is also more important than getting good teachers, e.g. Teach First have a government target of 90% of trainees getting QTS and they lose bonuses if they fail to meet this).