To think that what's happening to 'free' childcare hours is just another kick in the teeth?

[SerendipitySunshine]

For all of us who have been looking forward to these supposed 30 'free' hours from September (or currently with 15) it's just another kick in the teeth for working parents? I'm dreading what our nursery will do. Yes, I'm grateful to have anything (and I know others didn't) but this is not what was promised.

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/national/uk-today/24724272.free-childcare-hours-risk-nurseries-add-top-fees/

The whole fee system isn't fit for what it is now being used for.

It was based around the 38 weeks term time to allow every child aged 3/4yo to access early years education so everyone had a baseline of education before starting school.

Now we have moved on to nurseries providing childcare and funding 9mth old babies up to school age. The 38 week model no longer works when it is being used as all year childcare for parents to work. The whole system of funding needs a complete overhaul.

Private nurseries should be able to set their fees as they wish as a private business and parents should receive a set household fee towards each child so they can chose to put it towards care or for a parent to stay home. Every household should have the same amount offered and perhaps work a bit like child benefit (before it stopped being universal) where a child is automatically given payment from 9mths until the September they are due to start school.

At the moment nurseries have to juggle the funding and their fees and find 'reasons' to charge enough to keep them sustainable. The variation between the way funded hours are offered cause headaches for parents who then have to figure which nursery will use the hours in the way that helps them most. At least there would be a natural price comparison between nurseries if they could set their own prices without dealing with funding restrictions.

That is the one thing that really annoys me. I don’t mind if other children get free hours and we don’t - there has to be a cut off somewhere. And I don’t mind if my nursery has to increase fees because of the recent tax increases because it’s a good nursery and a business at the end of the day. But what I resent is my fees going up so that I’m paying for other children to attend.

It’s not THE Telegraph - you can click on the link.

I don’t disagree at all with the importance. One of my children is in a nursery that doesn’t accept free hours because the standards dropped to the floor (including the quality of the staff) is his free hours provision.
BUT you have to encourage nurseries to recruit entry level staff, train them and find qualifications. This does the opposite of that and will undoubtedly lead to a further skills shortage.
The whole sector and its funding needs a re think.

You'll be lucky! The DfE and Ofsted have been deliberately forcing childminders out for years. Over 100,000 in 2002; down to 25,000 at the beginning of this year and still falling.

That's it - childminders are like hen's teeth round here.

All governments want Mums to get back into the workplace to boost the economy so I really think all parents who go out to work should be given free childcare for however number of hours they work. That way they'd only have to pay travelling time to and from drop off and work so it would be easily affordable for all. We should be investing in DC. They are our future workers. In reality half of them can't even get free dental care.

It’s an absolutely huge saving. I am a childminder. Without funding 30 hours with me costs £240 per week, with funding it is £84 per week. That’s an astronomical saving.
and the argument over low funding rates has been going on for about 15 years, if anyone outside oF childcare had paid attention to the crisis within childcare no one would be surprised by the consumables fees, or by the loss of so many childcare settings.
ive had parents ringing me desperate in tears from miles away asking for spaces because so many settings are closing because of funding, and there aren’t enough spaces for children.
think yourself lucky you’re getting a discount and think yourself lucky you’ve got a childcare space when you need it. More than one parent I have spoken to over the last couple of years has ended up quitting their job because they couldn’t find childcare.
the childcare sector is in absolute crisis. The 9month plus funding will be the nail in its coffin if we don’t charge fees, and then where will the country be.

no childcare setting are in a position to opt out
of providing the funding. Because they will lose all of their children. Nobody is going to pay me £240 per week when they could get it for £84
per week. I have no choice but to accept the funding, and most childcare settings are in that same position.
also something you may not be aware of, we don’t get paid the funding in the same way, our council have just changed it, but previously you got it paid termly in the middle of the term. Which meant paying bills and staff (for nurseries) each month was very difficult. Each council will domit
differently, but if you live somewhere where they don’t get paid regularly, that will also affect their decision to charge extra I think.

I don't think the government is going to pay parents to stay at home. Sahp's don't pay tax and you would need taxes to fund this scheme (and the NHS etc.) The hours aren't free- we pay for them from taxation.

There is a huge structural problem with the economy in that the ratio of tax paying adults to non tax paying adult is getting smaller. This is partly aging population and partly people out of the workplace for lots of reasons including childcare.

I'm not making a value judgement over staying at home vs working but from an economic standpoint it's better to have more people in the workforce.

Please don’t judge us all as the same. I own a small independent private nursery and we do not charge any fees for funded hours. I believe funded should be just that, I also know if I charged top up fees some families would leave and the children would miss out or even worse be at risk.
some nurseries are charging ridiculous high fees and ripping off parents.
however the biggest issue is the government not raising the amount they pay, I currently receive £5:08 per hour per child, that is crazy.
since 2021 my commercial mortgage has gone from 5 to 10%, thanks Liz Truss, my business rates have doubled, minimum wage has increased by around £3 per hour. How are we supposed to cover this?
A 2 day strike would show the country what early years settings are worth.

By screwing over those same parents you won't charge more? How will that help them?

The amount of top up fees varies a lot though. I have childminders attended project I run and they do not charge top up fees but parents do provide nappies and meals for their children. Both of them do have a policy that you can only use a maximum of 3 funded hours in the morning and 3 in the afternoon, they cannot be used between 12&1 to stop families only using funded hours. One doesn't offer term time only either

Childcare providers have been struggling financially to meet demands for a while and the new extra free hours has made many close (or will close). Rising costs and the government subsidy doesn’t cover their costs for staff etc. now extra minimum wage and NI will force more to close or need to charge extra. It’s the government not paying enough (haven’t for years), not the nurseries fault. Very much misselling, good luck I hope it doesn’t get too bad.

My DDs are 19 and 16 and their pre-school charged top.up fees when they were little. It's nothing new.

You've supported his career. If he's a decent man he'll support yours now

How does your sister feel about part-paying for others' protection by the police, fire service, coastguard etc. or part-paying for others' care by the NHS, or their education in state schools (and private ones, for they get/got tax breaks as charitites)? In a social democracy everyone contributes to the care of everyone.

Through their taxes, not generally through what they pay for services. We don't, for example, charge some people £5 to use the bus, while others can travel for £1.

She is absolutely fine with the principle of fair and proportionate taxation, which is necessary for society to function. And with some of that tax provision being put towards childcare services.

Less so with overpaying for childcare.

In fairness, our nursery fees are similar to the funded hours rate (maybe a cheap area or maybe a more generous council) so we have never paid top-up fees. Maybe other areas are the same too?

She’s allowed to use those services though.

She’s blocked from using childcare support.

That is the difference.

Is that because you earn over £100k? Or been working overseas?

@sillystrings earn too much, but you can comfortably spend 85% of a £100k salary locally on two nursery places.

Wow, that's expensive.
I'm a solo parent earning half that but paying 100% of the bills inc nursery without the second wage earner.
I do see a reduction in my nursery bill since the 15hours kicked in and will again in a year when the 30hours kicks in for my child. Inflation is rampant, so I'm sure I'll see less of a difference than I've been hoping for, and I get charged extras. But child loves nursery, she's safe, happy and it's been great for her social skills and development.
I can't cover my mortgage, childcare and basic bills with my salary at the moment, so don't really do much or socialise at the weekends/holidays with my child because I can't afford to rack up more debt, so I'm happy she gets a lot of enrichment during the week and is happy low-key pottering around with me at home or the park at the weekend.

I think it's wrong that things like subsidised nursery or the cap on tax free childcare aren't truly universal.
All societies need universal provision of the fundamental things that benefit us all, and for all citizens to be access those.
It's strange to have these income cliff-edged policies and I don't think it makes long term economic sense, it makes people feel polarised or disfranchised, not something that I believe leads to a 'good' healthy society.

Yes £100k sounds like a lot, and is really in any reasonable world, but the problem is that childcare really is astronomically expensive especially without any state funding/help. It can price even high earners out of work. The cliff edges are silly too. I have one senior colleague who has reduced her hours to stay below the threshold as her pay rise was threatening to take her above it and that would have cost her thousands.

My son got the 15 hours funding when he was 2 (the low income/disability one) it was completely free. They didn't even charge us lunch.

He then got the 30 hours funding at 3. He went to a school nursery 5 mornings and a private nursery one afternoon a week and 2 full days in the school holidays. Never cost me a penny.

This was 2017-2019.