To support UK Farmers

[TheHateIsNotGood]

And due to KS's inability to face them in Wales today they are now thinking of going on strike. Because the govt are being too stubborn to reconsider how they apply IHT on working family farms. By all means close the loophole that allows the 'landed gentry' to take advantage of the agricultural exception but not with so blunt an instrument.

I was hoping to add a post to an existing thread but there isn't one despite it being headline news today.

The fewer farms in the UK, the more imports. And the more imported meat, the lower the welfare standards are likely to be. The UK has the highest animal welfare standards of anywhere in the world.

sustainablefoodtrust.org/news-views/leading-in-animal-welfare/

Then we'll get meat scares and the baby will be thrown out with the bath water.

I remember my father talking about the corned beef scandal. Argentina I think. The government are signing a deal with South American farmers now

Does no-one remember the horse/pig meat scandal being sold as beef through Europe. It was only 11 years ago

"2013 horse meat scandal - Wikipedia" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal

I’m with you on livestock farming I haven’t eaten animals since 1980.
But this issue is not just about livestock farming. It’s worth noting many livestock farmers have converted land to arable recognising the rise in a plant based diet.

If we tax farmers out of business we as a country won’t be able to produce our own arable crops. For me, despite my views on livestock farming, being as self sufficient as we can be is more important. Meat consumption is reducing anyway and I’d like UK farmers to be there to grow my fruit and veg for me.

Well, if they do, i hope they get the sort of jail sentences they gave to JSO....

Then the SM's will import more from abroad and sue Farmers for breach of contract.
Depriving people of food is utterly disgusting.

On the Horse meat "scandal" it was hardly that, the meat was safe to eat, it just wasn't what was on the packet.

A better scandal is F&M in which the tax payer bailed out the farming industry, the cause of which was their shoddy feeding and livestock movement processes.

Farmers voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. It’s cost the economy £100 billion. Payback time.

So, no, I’m not supporting them. They got what they voted for.

In no way shape or form could what you describe be a small farm. Recommendation for a dairy is 2 acres per cow. https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/how-many-acres-per-cow.375053/
So there is 600 acres.

Sheep 6-10 animals per acre. https://nationalsheep.org.uk/next-generation/starting-your-own-flock/
So theres another 100 acres.

With an average UK farm size of 170 acres. What you describe is four times the average. In which case, of course you should pay IHT the same as the rest of the Country.

What I don't understand is why farmers should be treated differently to ...

.....a friend of mine who has a family holiday letting business with 8 holiday lets.

....another friend of mine who inherited a family portfolio of 15 rental properties.

Both of these will have to pay IHT (and the latter one already has! .... they'll have to pay again when this generation pass!)

As far as I understand it, farmers can gift their land in their lifetime without tax, so long as they live 7 years. OK they might sadly get caught out by dying early but in my two examples above they don't get this lifetime relief at all.

Farmers didn’t vote overwhelmingly to leave
52% of the whole population voted Leave
53/54% of farmers voted to Leave
55% of men voted to Leave and by region you can see below

So by the same token all men, and those in the midlands, north east and north west then should be taxed out of their homes and livelihoods because they voted with a higher majority than farmers to Leave.

Is that really OK

Because we need food and don’t want to be at the mercy of only imports

This piece from Savills. One of the biggest land agents in the UK gives a good insight into farmland values and demonstrated the increases far in excess of inflation.
https://www.savills.co.uk/blog/article/329140/rural-property/70-years-of-farmland-values-and-supply.aspx
Essentially in real time values, it is an increase of around 360%.

We don't need homes to live in?

And, that doesn't address my note about lifetime gifts. Farmers still have more generous capital taxes than others.

We don't grow fruit in the UK, but we do produce almost all grains and most vegetables.

You were comparing this to holiday let’s.
Food is more important than holidays

We get all our fruit, when in season, locally.

Nice farmer down the road, great spuds too

I saw online the UK fruit growing industry is huge.
NFU headline also states ‘British farmers grow a huge range of fruit and veg’

So what? Is it really more niche than the private school tax threads of which there are about a million threads on. Only 7% of children go to private schools that's pretty niche too. How many kids are in farming families probably a similar percentage

No, one of my friends has a rental portfolio. That was part of my comparison.

And that still doesn't address my point about generous lifetime capital taxes still available to farmers and not to the rest of us.

We don't grow fruit in the UK

What?

I, however was commenting on your holiday let’s comment….nothing else!

Oooh Arrr...we don't grow fruit...but I am a cider drinker!

How stupid can you be? Food security is a massively important subject and it should concern you that as a direct consequence of this governments budget, food prices in this country are going to go up and up and up and more food will need to be imported. Imports don't just arrive by magic, there can be supply chain issues, geopolitical issues, etc etc.

I genuinely think people have forgotten COVID and how it affected food imports of all kinds. We currently import approximately 42% of our food, to have any kind of policy where that may mean an increase on that percentage is insanity.

@Feelingstrange2 , the properties you speak about won't just disappear, even if they're owned by other people. They'll still be lived in!
I assume that farms being sold off may not be bought by other farmers- how many people could just pick up the reigns and start farming land? I certainly couldn't! Presumably the land will be used for other purposes in many cases- and those farms will have gone. What about our food security?

Why would food prices rise? Why would production drop? Same amount of land, just different people farming it instead of tax dodging weasels like Dyson.

From that article:
When Queen Elizabeth II acceded to the throne in 1952 at the age of 25, the British people were still subject to rationing and farmland values stood at £78 per acre, equivalent to £1,700 per acre in real terms. Now, 70 years on, the average value in England is £7,800 per acre, but we are facing another tumultuous time as a result of war in Europe.

Average land value now is north of £10,000 per acre, plus we still have a threat of war, and possibly one that threatens our food imports.

So, of course, now is the time the Croydon Massive chooses to decimate our food security and force farmers to sell up to (probably) foreign owned conglomerates.