To support UK Farmers

[TheHateIsNotGood]

And due to KS's inability to face them in Wales today they are now thinking of going on strike. Because the govt are being too stubborn to reconsider how they apply IHT on working family farms. By all means close the loophole that allows the 'landed gentry' to take advantage of the agricultural exception but not with so blunt an instrument.

I was hoping to add a post to an existing thread but there isn't one despite it being headline news today.

"Subject to planning permission"

Absolutely clueless 😂

Both Angela Rayner and Ed Miliband have the power to step in and take the decision making away from local government if the projects are considered to be of national importance.

Planning Permission is irrelevant.

I was also very happy in the EU and voted remain? I'm a tenant Hill farmer... what's your point exactly?

It is a good question - who will buy agricultural land?

Do you understand what is happening with local development plans and the impact they have on planning processes?

That is a good point, and it is something that was always a bugbear of mine with the subsidy system. It does need overhauled to remove the 'subsidy farming' to make asset companies etc money.

I think you're being a bit defensive. My point is in my post.

Round my way;

National Trust

United utilities

Sainsburys

None of them are doing it for IHT reasons.

It's mostly to plant trees on. No planning permission required.

@ARealitycheck obviously you haven't seen all the new houses (overpriced by any standards) now being built in NW Devon; more than 2000 right now on virgin farmland. The farmers sold 'out' a long time ago.

Not sure who will buy them, there's so many, and no burgeoning industry nor jobs available to go with them. Cashing in and retiring there will only work for so long - better bring your own carers, educators, etc with you. There isn't even a private dentist availble for the current population. But you go you....

A lot of people aren't realising that a big factor in the values on agricultural land has been the demand from wealthy bankers/brokers etc buying it as an inheritance tax planning tool.

The fact that this will no longer work, should reduce demand for agricultural land and lower its value. This should mean in the medium and long term, real working farmers benefit as:

• agricultural land will cost less to buy in the first place and the price of the land will return to being linked to what you generate actually farming it.
• more small family farms won't be worth enough for the inheritance tax to be a serious issue.

A farm is a valuable asset - there's no other way to put it. Its just not fair some people get to inherit that tax free just because their dad farmed.

Real working farmers can easily get around the change by:

• passing ownership of the farm to their children earlier in life
• transferring the farm into a limited company. Its a business so there should be no issue doing this and many farms are already held as businesses.

The people truly hurt by this are rather wealthy folk who want to leave a hugely valuable asset tax free.

I totally get that, and it is why the subsidy system needs addressed as well as inheritance tax.

@TheHateIsNotGood On the part of agricultural land being used for housing I agree it shouldn't be passed for change of use. But you also must look at the farmers who sold this land and let them take some blame too.

Good post

Sainsburys don't care about subsidies it's about having enough land to plant enough trees on to off-set their carbon without having to stop putting plastic on everything

A pp mentioned Blair advisor John McTernan who said
“The farmers want to go on the streets – we can do to them what Margaret Thatcher did to the miners… That’s an industry we could do without.”

What did he mean ‘an industry we could do without’? Does he mean no crops should be grown or milk or meat produced in this country?
Presumably he thinks all food should be imported.
What would happen to all the land? Maybe he wants to build on all of it.

You might want to look into what happens financially/legally if a farmer gifts the land to someone else when he still wants to farm it/live there.

And how would the farm business 'buy' the land into the ownership of the business without it attracting CGT for the elder owner?

Not sure that is entirely true, they get stewardship payments and similar which can be very profitable. At circa £55-£135 per tree along with as you say their net zero nonsense claims it isn't a bad day at the office for them.

What I can never understand with Supermarkets in general. They have vast buildings in form of stores or distribution units. Why are these not utilised for solar panels.

now we are in the irony free zone - this is happening everywhere

As I wrote in the first 15 posts on this thread, I understand the Government's wish to prevent agricultural land being used to pass wealth between generations where it is primarily a tax dodge. I support that goal.

BUT, I also support farmers who produce food, mostly meat and milk around here on the edge of Dartmoor. Sheep are not very profitable now that wool has no value. It costs more to shear a sheep than its fleece is worth. But millions of acres locally can only be grazed by sheep, so there's no alternative. Goats can't manage the winters, and the upland grazing is too poor for cattle, but cows thrive on lowland areas and the beautiful grass that produces rich milk from which the UK makes some of the best cheese in the world. The UK's cheese makers now make more varied and better cheeses than France.

@ARealitycheck . Yes I do agree with you and did point that out [locally] way back. But we are where we are now.

One of the few things left that we do well in the UK is to produce great food. And people need to eat. The last time the UK appreciated the need for food security was WW2.

And I so very much appreciate the very few left that dedicate their lives to producing the great food under often, challenging climactic circumstances; as has always been the greatest friend and foe of any farmer wherever they may be.

If I can add a little tip - the UK has culturally accepted the 'greenhouse grown' produce from the EU as expected - it should be just as easy to create vast greenhouses along the industrial wastelands along the North Sea utilizing wind and solar energy to power them. As well as some good shit from the livestock farms and the inventive expertise that the indigineous population are actually good at.

The original "Economists for Brexit" plan, led by Professor Patrick Minford, laid out a strategy of shutting down a lot of domestic farming and manufacturing, dropping tariffs and possibly some non-tariff barriers, and buying those things in from overseas much more cheaply than they can be produced in a high-wage (in global terms) economy. That's why trade makes a country richer. Our economy, by their plan, would pivot much more towards exporting services.

There are an awful lot of problems with that plan (not least food security).
But we are where we are by our own decision. We're not rejoining the EU any time soon I would say, not least because, quite reasonably they will not want us as we are. Starmer's minimalist "reset" is deck chairs on the Titanic. Minford's plan will be enormously painful (to farming and manufacturing), much like shutting down the coal mines in the 80s. But now we're here with no way back it might make Brexit work.

I think we have to accept that many people are so far removed from the food they put in their mouths they don't comprehend the bigger picture.

Now if the government came along and taxed their gardens as an amenity not available to those in flats which has been mooted by the way. Those in flats would have little sympathy and think it a good idea to raise taxes.

For those who enjoy the countryside a think tank Cymru BAME think walking dogs in the countryside is racist.

I give up.

I live in the rural area of the south east .. I've NEVER met a poor farmer .. my dad was one so I know what I am talking about..

Vast MAJORITY of 'farms' Rena tax dodge to avoid n inheritance tax ... Labour have closed this loophole...

As a rural dweller of 'landed gentry' u whole heartedly support this policy.!!

Multi-million pound tractor sales businesses are limited companies and the owners don’t die in their tractors.