Teaching and "propaganda"

[deeperdiving]

DC13 loves history and does well in it. DC has a new teacher and has said that the new teacher is teaching things in a very one sided way. I studied history at university and have instilled into DC the importance of being impartial and distinguishing sources and distinguishing fact vs opinion.

DC has said that they have a weekly current affairs lesson. Latest one was about Harris vs Trump. DC said that the teacher gave the Harris campaign narratives as fact, and when talking about various policies, misquoted things and when talking about US relationships with other countries gave no historical context. DC is quite keen on 20th c history, and is interested in context and why things happened as they did.

So, to illustrate, there are threads on here which have Harris or Trump supporters and for example one person will say "X said this" and the other side will say "no, they said this" and show a clip showing that what was actually said was completely different from what the other side was maintaining. The teacher here is giving the Harris campaign narrative, and DC is slightly confused about it.

Has anyone else experienced this with schools? I am not sure whether the teacher is following syllabus requirements in terms of how to present things. It doesn't seem to be being taught as it was when I was at school!

Re read your OP, 13?

Not the point of the thread but Dorling Kindersley make such great resources!

Actually, are you in the UK as I am surprised there is so much discussion in a History lesson on current affairs in a state school at 13.

It would also be worth discussing why claims that are untrue proved to be such an effective campaign strategy.

To make outrageous and provocative claims which immediately become talking points among influencers etc it keeps the public focused on the issues Trump wants our attention drawn to. The pet eating claim is taken with a pinch of salt but the high proportion of Haitian migrants in Springfield is being repeated ad nauseum in an election campaign where migration is a key issue. As with gender surgery in school, obv schools aren't, but social transitions are being facilitated and encouraged in schools with policies that do isolate children from their parents.

That's not going to be something repeated in a British state school at 13.

"As you well know, what you are saying here is what is being said on a lot of threads by the people who supported Harris, and people with other opinions about what is fact and not fact have been pushing back on those threads, with explanations about inaccurate or biased reporting or incorrect interpretation, or whatever."

I'm not sure I understand how what you are saying here relates to the Trump information that poster gave - could you expand? I absolute agree that context is important to take into account, however on those specific examples, knowing the context around them, I'm not sure what context makes the principle points made by that poster untrue. If an actor says a racial slur in a film as part of their role, but the quote is then misattributed to them as an individual, that's important context - and I absolutely agree that quotes should be seen in context, like this was an interview, this was a hypothetical scenario discussion etc - but I'm not sure how this relates to 'opinions about what is fact or not fact'.
Also surely part of what you teach your son is fact vs. Opinion right - you might be teaching him that others believe opinion to be fact, but your post almost made it sound like you are saying these documented facts about trump can be legitimately disproved and people have been pushed back against wrongly... Maybe I have read it totally wrong!

I think you’re totally wrong when you say “historians must be objective”. Historians should bear in mind that their understanding of a subject is subjective.

What is an objective fact? There are some out there, but it’s not really dates and fact that are important in history. Look at the argument being had over whether kids are identifying as cats, or whether Trump had an affair with a porn star. Where are you going to find an overriding objective fact there! Much better to learn about why people say what they do, what may be influencing them, how to weigh up different sources of information, use evidence and make a decision.

Whether or not it’s what your son’s teacher is trying to do, it sounds like this is exactly the lesson your son is taking from it. I’d be pretty happy with that.

Some teachers have been teaching a whole host of ideological nonsense in schools over the last few years, especially wrt to trans ideology.

In so far as history teachers are concerned, if you child is a teen I would encourage them to debate with the teacher any point where they believe the teacher has bias. This has been going on for decades, I had an English teacher in the 80s who wouldn't leave his political beliefs at home either, but he was open to being challenged on them. I think it was part of the 'teaching' encouraging students to be able to express an alternative viewpoint.

If you read the OP carefully, this was not a History lesson and I suspect the person leading it was not a History teacher. Perhaps the OP could clarify the latter.

@lifeturnsonadime

"Some teachers have been teaching a whole host of ideological nonsense in schools over the last few years, especially wrt to trans ideology. "

'Teaching'? Like in a formal sense - writing lesson plans, lecturing, setting assignments? Or by 'teaching' you mean 'expressing an opinion'?

I’m amazed by how many PPs think it’s okay for a teacher to run a lesson without setting a clear learning objective and link to the curriculum content! This isn't about whether said teacher has the ‘right’ opinions or not, it’s about whether he is actually doing his job.

@deeperdiving If this is exactly what happened, you should raise this as a concern with the school.

teachers are not permitted to share their personal political beliefs with their students. They have a duty to be politically impartial.

Regarding this particular lesson I would quote the following in any correspondence with the school
’During periods of heightened political activity and sensitivity, including around elections or in the aftermath of significant political events, staff should be mindful to avoid activity within the school that could be construed as promoting a particular partisan view.’

here’s the full guidance
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/political-impartiality-in-schools/political-impartiality-in-schools

Sometimes teaching in RSE or PHSE lessons.

Either way expressing an opinion is overreach. Children are impressionable and vulnerable and schools are no place to try to advance and ideological agenda.

That was intended for @izimbra

I’m surprised that this was taught in a history lesson given it is not history and also that the teacher was discussing sex with porn stars with 13 year olds.

Perhaps an email to the head of history could clarify the purpose of the lesson.

@Annabella92

"The pet eating claim is taken with a pinch of salt"

The pet eating claim is a dangerous and inflammatory lie designed to stir up hatred and fear of immigrants.

"As with gender surgery in school, obv schools aren't, but social transitions are being facilitated and encouraged in schools with policies that do isolate children from their parents."

So it's also an outrageous lie and a complete misrepresentation of what's actually happening in schools.

Your tolerance for Trump spreading dangerous lies about immigrants and teachers is troubling and puts you on the wrong side of history.

This was how the information was provided by the teacher, that is, as bare facts

Which speak for themselves, so... 🤷‍♂️

That the new president of the most powerful country in the world is someone who is a convicted criminal, who has lied, who has paid off prostitutes it’s not an opinion. It is a fact. I think it’s entirely appropriate that a teacher would mention this to year 8/9s. Though I’m not sure what the lesson objective was from the OP

This isn't the point of the thread, but while I agree the letterbox thing is obviously fake, there was a thread on here just last week with dozens of people saying there are children at their child's school identifying as animals. Some even admitting that their own children identified as animals. And I know of an example myself. Maybe years ago it was 'wild propaganda' or more likely just very rare. Not any more.

Have you heard yourself?! How, if that's the case, are the Left any different from the Right?!

I ask you. Do you really think some of us won't notice your blatant, ridiculous whataboutery?

@izimbra

"As with gender surgery in school, obv schools aren't, but social transitions are being facilitated and encouraged in schools with policies that do isolate children from their parents."
So it's also an outrageous lie and a complete misrepresentation of what's actually happening in schools.

This is not a lie.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/08/us-public-schools-conceal-childs-gender-status-from-parents/

Makingchocolatecake · Yesterday 21:29

For current affairs there won't be syllabus requirements, I'd argue it needs to be fact based but I'm a geography teacher so it's hard not to be balanced in my subject!

Goodness! I hope you're not indoctrinating them with those terrible lies about the Rock Cycle!

😁

Forgive me, but you weren't there and hence can't possibly know if there was any nuance in the way things were presented. It sounds like you think your son has given a completely vertamin account of this lesson, but in my experience, 13-year-olds are not always reliable witnesses! Maybe he has misremembered, exaggerated, or forgotten various bits of what was said, or maybe he has some biases of his own (regarding the topic itself or the teacher) that came into play in his account. Alternatively, maybe the teacher was playing devil's advocate to stimulate thought and discussion. Surely in the interests of balance and context which you so desire, you would need to also hear the teacher's account of the lesson?

How do you know it's a British school, I can't see where the OP has indicated that?

The UK voted in a left wing government, is the whole country indoctrinated!! (Rhetorical)

Indoctrination by media?