To ask your alternatives to Botox?

[Wrinkleyoldbag]

I’m nearly 40 and my face in the last year seems to have crumpled like a crisp packet!!
The wrinkles and lines across my forehead are now extensive and don’t disappear when my face is expressionless!
I have a needle phobia so Botox just isn’t an option for me!
Ive tried expensive brands (La Roche posay, Estau Lauder, Elemis) and cheaper (the ordinary, boots own, etc) with no real change.
I’ve used retinol and mandelic acid, which helps with skin tone and glow, but no change to wrinkles!!
I use spf everyday, but I think it might be too late as the damage is done!
I’ve looked at LED masks but I don’t think it the science behind really stacks up for at home use.
Is there anything I can try/use to make a difference, or am I destined to keep this crumpled face?? TIA.

Yeah, but no. You could have so easily just have simply said 'Just love yourself without Botox, etc.' But no. You just had to get those nasty digs in, didn't you? Had to try and make the poster doubt herself.

Even in your latest post you just had to use a salacious phrase 'Inject your face with chemicals' making it sound somehow a bit grubby and distasteful.

Your words say far, far more about you than you like to think.

Funny subject botox. Probably one of the only ones where the 'experts' are the ones who'd never go near it, so you'd think would know less than those who have it. Yet strangely, despite the fact they've never experienced it, have the uncanny ability to 'spot it a mile off', even when it's 'good'. Now I've had it in my forehead for 25 years, but there's no way I'd be betting my house on who else did. These 'experts' will also proclaim with confidence that other women they have never clapped eyes on will look awful and the woman looking at her OWN face, knows less than they. They will regale us with descriptions of women's faces (invariably confusing the effect of heavy filler with botox) to 'prove' their point. Then most oddly of all, will pretend to take a feminist high ground, urging women to grow old 'gracefully' and not be so vain and shallow to care what they look like. Then back this up by insulting what they LOOK LIKE. Funny subject botox.

@5128gap I think you might misunderstand how some people feel.

I don't mind at all other people using Botox, fillers or surgery.

No issue with it whatsoever, only feel a bit sorry for them if it turns out down the line it's problematic, like with certain types of breast implants (watched too much Botched).

I have a friend who had one very small (eye) cosmetic surgery done, and a couple do just the 11's and that's very effective and not noticeable.

However, many people do not stick at that and once doing that, they then do the whole forehead, which is noticeable or fillers, which I can usually spot (even on younger members of the Royal Family..)

I don't think people 'know their own face' better because they tend to see their face in repose, still or in photographs. If they saw a face of filler and Botox in movement, chatting, talking, emoting, they would see something quite different, often the 'uncanny valley' look which does make you do a double-take in a whole line of people (same with duck lips, they just jar the brain in some way even if done really well).

I am not against many very subtle tweaks or even jaw surgery if you want to go all the way, I know someone who had that in their late twenties, didn't really change their overall attractiveness though, because the sum of the person is more than the parts, and that person was already good looking in a noticeable way so having a slightly tinier jaw was neither here nor there. They may have felt more confident though, which is a factor not often considered. I had my teeth done later in life and even though it probably didn't make a dramatic difference to others (I seemed to be attractive and have many friends despite crooked teeth), it made a huge one to me and now I smile in all photos.

I suppose I am alone in liking how Harriet Walter looks these days. Marvellously wrinkly and regal.

That's a balanced and considered view @@BetterInColour but if you look through the thread and the many others on the subject, you will see far more extreme negativity, often gratuitous cruelty, with offensive language used about other women's faces by individuals for whom botox is nothing to do with their own lives. I find it interesting that people can become so savage towards other women for doing something that effects them not at all, and the conceit that drives them to believe they know best.

Get some rosehip oil and use that instead of moisturiser

It does affect other women when the general view is that it’s unacceptable for women to age and youthfulness is all that matters. And girls when all they see is images of women who have been “done”.

I think I have fallen in love with you x

I would be there like a shot for some subtle Botox on the 11 lines if it wasn't for the fact I have a slight droop on one eye and a bit of nerve damage in my forehead- I don't feel I can risk it

Well we can't have it both ways, can we? If we say treatments don't work and make women look like vile duck aliens and (horrors!) even older!! Then we can't hold the women who have them responsible for inspiring young women to have them too. If anything our hideous mask like puffed up faces should have other women fleeing in the opposite direction.
Regardless, you have it backwards. The unacceptablity of aging is not caused by women having treatments to look younger. Women who have treatments to look younger (which is by no means the only reason for them) do it because aging is unacceptable.
And it might do to remember when deciding to lay the blame for how older women are treated on other older women, that we did not create it a society of youth fetishism, we just live in it and navigate it the best we can, and if some of us choose to do it with a smooth forehead, it's really neither here nor there.

Treatments work.
But always worth trying Tretinoin first if you dont want them for whatever reason.
I don't want them.

Quite. If Botox creates such visually unappealing faces that cause horror derision, then surely younger women will run screaming for the hills? And, once in the hills, they can bask in the knowledge that their wrinkles and scowl lines make them morally superior.

I think the truth is somewhere between the two views. Botox doesn’t look amazing on everyone. Even if you go to the best doctors. You need to be cautious, especially once you get older as like I said - smooth forehead and saggy jaw looks off.

I think the ideal age for Botox if you’re tempted is early 40s. I don’t agree that it should be done every 3 months. It’s good to let it wear off and regain perspective. And also I do worry about muscle atrophy if you have it done frequently for many years. I also do think it pushes wrinkles elsewhere- so crows feet become under eye wrinkles, you can’t frown so you use other muscles. It’s not the be all and end all it’s made out to be.

Small doses by a good doctor from time to time on suitable people - yes that can look good and subtle.

OP your biggest mistake is using over the counter crap. At most I would buy a makeup remover from Boots, I would never buy my skincare from a high street store.

You need genuine medical grade shit to make a difference. A chemical peel will help with fine lines but botox is always going to be superior. Tret will also help. Have a look at Skinceuticals P-Tiox - I haven’t tried it yet but I will do.

OP, I used to get Tretinoin from France, Spain and Greece. They stopped making the one in Greece and it was really cheap too, I'm on my last 2 tubes. I ignore expiry dates and stick to 0.5 strength. From a normal chemist without a prescription, asking anyone and everyone who was going there to buy me £50-£100 worth of stuff, unless I happened to visit the particular country when I needed re-stocking.
I would imagine they might have similar products in Italy, never tried there. Maybe other countries too?
India too I should think, they sell all sorts at pharmacies I'm guessing because they are some of the biggest medicines producers in the world. I need to investigate this one but I don't know anyone going there at present.

Or try one if these monthly subscriptions like Skin+Me as they appear to be reasonably priced.

I use tretinoin 5 night a week during winter and up to 3 nights a week during summer.

In addition, I also use Biologie Recgarger (spelling?) P50 toner which I order online from Embassy of Beauty in the UK. Not exactly cheap but it lasts ages. It is an exfoliating treatment. I don't use this the same night as tretinoin and I use it once or twice a week maximum, sometimes I take a few weeks break.

Let’s also remember the many men who have tweakments, it’s not only women.

Many people associate ageing with death and decay. It’s not unnatural to think a youthful appearance is more aesthetically pleasing.