AIBU to think 'hit them back' is inappropriate to tell a 5 year old?

[TRecks]

DS5 is autistic; dragonised young by NHS. Some v clear social and communication challenges. Struggled in nursery hugely.

Primary school has been far better. But he is always been on the outside & struggled. He is far happier in the company of girls but he (and all the other boys) refuse to play with girls. He actually like some of the girls and they like him but he refuses to play with them if the boys are near.

To cut a long story short, in the last month - the group of confident, loud boys have started running away from him whenever he goes near them. They take things from him. But mostly they just run away and pretend they can't see him. They have never been violent as far as I know.

Just been at kids party and DS spent most of it in tears. He often pretends everything is fine but this time he just cried and cried that the boys laugh at him, run away from him and spent it in my lap buried into my jumper.

I then persuaded him to go and play again, and saw with my own eyes all the boys run away as soon as he approached. He cried again and we went home

DH is now saying to DS 'you hit them back kid'. He is saying 'the other dads will tell their sons the same' . Nobody is hitting anyone at the moment and now of course DS is saying to me 'do I hit boys?' and DH is saying 'no, only if they hit you' but he's 5 and autistic and is now v confused as he is saying 'i thought hitting was bad'. DH just lecturing me that I don't understand boy dynamics and he needs to 'not be a victim' and he needs to show them he is not 'the weakest link'

What are people's views? It seems totally inappropriate and unhelpful to me. But I get that my current advice of 'be kind', tell the teacher etc isn't working and the boys are being cruel and DS is becoming increasingly upset at goiing to school.

It is inappropriate to encourage a child to hit people, especially if it's not in self defence.

Teacher here. Think a lot of dads do give this advice without thought to the trouble it can get their child into. Getting to the bottom of why they are all running away from him is vital

It's wrongly placed advice. Yes if there was an individual who kept hitting him then hit them back might be considered an acceptable response. But they aren't hitting him - they are running away and your poor ND child doesn't understand why he is being told hit them BACK as if they've already hit him!

Exactly! DS was saying "but hitting is bad" and looking confused

But generally "hit them back" seems pretty shitty advice whatever age but H telling me I don't understand boys and my approach will never work!

We’ve taught our daughter to push them away and find a teacher, it worked a treat for her in preschool.

Hit them back has a place and time. A 5 year old with asd who isn’t being hit is not the place nor time.

And I say it has a place and time because if you’ve gone to the school a dozen times because someone is hitting your child and bugger all has happened often a swift smack back does fix the problem because they back the hell off.

I would be raising this with school first and foremost your poor son. If no-ones hit him then it’s all moot and theres no point in your DH saying that. I do understand the feelings your Dh is having about this though.

If he gets hit a short sharp smack back will nip it in the bud.

I can see why your DS is confused, he can't "hit back" if he hasn't been hit to begin with. FWIW, I do think sometimes that advice is warranted as some kids will leave their victim alone once they realise they will fight back, but it isn't relevant to this situation.

It is inappropriate to tell him to hit them when they're not hurting him physically. Even advice to hit back in self defence is problematic at this age, and this is more likely to be hard for an Autistic child to understand because the boundaries around self defence are a grey area. I had to make a different rule for my ND kids as one in particular can't grasp the difference between his little brother pushing him or touching his toys and him then punching them really hard in 'self defence'. He weighs twice what his brother does and is much stronger. So the rule is just no hitting other kids. He's nearly 10 now and still can't understand where the boundary is. If he was being psychically bullied Id have to redefine that rule.
Your best bet with this kind of behaviour at this age would be to talk to the teacher, they can talk to the kids about things like exclusion and be on the lookout for unkind behaviour. Getting the teacher involved has helped my DC in early years. Seems to be less useful as they get older. It might be worth considering if he can get that social input playing with boys he's craving in a different way like joining a kids sport like football. This can help give some social experience and sense of belonging outside school.

Hitting back in self defence is fine if anyone tries to physically hurt them. Children need to know they can do that if necessary.

But hitting in this scenario it is unacceptable as no one has tried to physically hurt him. There is no hit 'back' as no one touched him.

Sadly his feelings are hurt but you need to explain it's ok if others don't want to play and you dont have to force children to play together.

The other children are not being kind taking things from him so that needs to be dealt with but it's also unfair to make them play with someone they don't want to play with.

Can you join him onto after school activities like football, tennis, martial arts etc So he gets that opportunity to mix/interact with boys but in a controlled environment where other children can't run away and refuse to interact with him?

I think for many reasons, there is never going to be a consensus on this. I don't think it is ever acceptable to hit someone (although in extreme circumstances self defence is justified). Some people are brought up that if they hit you, you should hit them back, and they believe it is the right thing to do as passionately as we believe it isn't.

I agree you can't force kids to play with someone. Im clueless about how to help. I'll talk to the school but I know my son doesn't play like the other kids and they think he's "strange". The teachers keep saying "maybe he's happy alone" - but he absolutely isnt. No idea how to help him.

The school should absolutely have a plan to deal with this. They should be setting him tasks to complete with one other carefully chosen friendly child, to build rapport. They should have someone at playtime loosely organising a game in which any child is welcome and given a role. The teacher should be aware of the social dynamics and suggest likely friends to you. There should be a Lego club or gardening club where children who need social support are invited and spend time in a small group.

My son's school does all these things. They also split the classes every so often to break up groups like the one your son is dealing with - their behaviour is not unusual but needs to be disrupted.

Definately speak to school. They may be able to buddy him with some children who might be more open to interacting with him.

Also consider after school activities/clubs if you can. Children can't run away from each in most of those.

If you want to raise doormats and snowflakes, sure tell them not to hit back. If you want your child to have some chance at protecting themselves against bullies and to not be a target in the first please, tell them to hit back harder.

Your husband is completely in the wrong in this situation and could end up making it so much worse for your son. This group of boys clearly aren’t a good match as friends for your son and vice versa. And that is ok. Friendships can’t be forced. I’d definitely speak to the teacher and see if she can gently encourage your son towards other children in the class. I think it’s hard all round these days for children who are ND but also for peers who are NT, especially very young children who don’t think like adults and have the same understanding. I hope your son finds friends he clicks with OP, he sounds a very sociable boy.

As a teacher, please don’t tell your children to hit back. Best case scenario both your child and the unkind child will get in trouble. Worst (and common) case scenario your child interprets it as if someone says something unkind hit them - then only your child gets in trouble.
Also remember that once your child is 10 hitting a child at school becomes assault and if a parent wants to follow it up with the police they can, that’s rare, I’ve known it happen twice in 20 years working in education.

You are absolutely right the old hit them back they will leave you alone doesn’t exist in real life. It just creates a vendetta.

I told both of mine to hit back, and I stand by it.

I teach mine strong arms - arm straight infront of you and shout NO very loudly if child is being physically unkind

These boys are being unkind but they any being violent so totally inappropriate to tell dc that esp one that's rule driven.

I'd focus on social stories of what makes a good friend, how a good friend should treat you, situations where people are being unkind and how they aren't worth being friends with.

Then you are setting them up for problems.
It is bad advice and anyone who hits anyone at school will get the same consequence regardless who started it.
It also doesn’t ‘scare bullies into backing down’ the majority of kids who bully do so because of what they see around them, and never back down because that would be seen as weak.

Agree with all this. Speak to school and ask about all these things. I hope he’s ok.

This is very good advice.

Try out of school activities to build confidence such as beavers or boys brigade or sen teams such as football etc.

I had to teach mine social interaction as they didn't have a clue. We did quite a bit if role play just me and dc.