To think this is wrong, not to mention unfair…?

[VegTrug]

Sometimes I get really quite stuck on my principles. So I’d appreciate some balanced responses please, to help me see sense if needs be.

on Tuesday I screwed up. I forgot to set the alarm (still in half term mode I suppose 🙄). Totally my fault. I informed school (primary) that DD would be 10/15 mins late, told the truth, that it was my fault and apologised profusely. DD was 11 mins late.

Context for the next few paragraphs: DD has had some health issues over the last 6 months and so far this year, has had her attendance percentage drop into the 89% range (can’t remember the exact number but roughly 89%). Not ideal but these were due to long awaited Paediatric appointments & tests that categorically couldn’t be re-arranged. For each one, she was returned to school asap when applicable.

Anyway, last night I was looking on Arbor for something and nearly dropped my cuppa when I noticed that DD’s percentage has dropped to 75.9%! WTH?
I emailed the office this morning to politely ask why it’s dropped so much for just one lateness. They replied saying “Unfortunately any lateness occurring after the register has closed, is classed as 1 session of Unauthorised Absence” - An entire half-day as an unauthorised absence because she was 11 mins late?! Surely not?
(For those who don’t know, each day is classed as 2 sessions)
She went on to ‘reassure’ me that there’ll be “No repercussions” to DD having an unauthorised absence on her record etc etc but that’s not the point! Why should she? Would this annoy you? Or AIBU?

I replied pointing out that the lateness was my fault not DD’s but I feel this was probably futile!

PS, Apologies if there’s any errors in my post, I’m Beta testing the new MN App and whilst it’s mostly working great, there’s some bugs in the section where you compose a new thread 🐛 🐜 🐞

This is standard. You were late. It's disruptive when children turn up late for school.

I wouldn't stress about it. One of mine had attendance numbers in the 70s due to health issues. The school had an attendance officer person - I spoke to them, they were fine. If the school isn't worried, then don't worry. No one judges her based on that record, it's more for the school as I understand it.

I think that this is the way that attendance works - that it is measured by the register not by actual attendance. I guess anything else would be too complicated. (Fred left for his hospital appointment at 10:23 and returned at 12:25 so he did 62.836474% of the day.)

However, I know that the school my kids went to had a clever wheeze that meant that if you were up to about 25 mins late you just went in through the office and your name was added to the register that way. Seems very sensible when the kids get the vast majority of the learning for the morning.

Yes, it's just how they count it.

My son goes in at around the cut off time, and he officially has about 50% authorised absence even though he is in. Absolutely bonkers. It is worth keeping your own records if this is going to be an ongoing thing.

That’s just how it is. No one else will know her level of attendance (other parents etc) and it’s basically inconsequential.

Incidentally it works the other way round too - you can take her in for registration and pick her up for an appointment at 9.30 without losing the morning's attendance, if it's important to you.

IMO just worrying less about her attendance stats is a better response.

I was really surprised when I learnt that being late for after register meant an unauthorised absence too. But it was explained to me on here that's just how schools work

Everything about the current attendance guidance irritates me and arguably is wrong and unfair but it is the rules and there is no other way around it

Oof, that does sound a bit harsh OP. My DD's infant school has an official arrival window of 8.45-8.55, but I think the register doesn't get taken until 9, so I guess that technically gives a 15 minute buffer....

Normal. Once the the register is done, it’s done. It works in your favour though if you ever need to pick your dd up early for an appointment because she’s be marked as present after lunch for the whole afternoon, evens if she left straight after the register was taken.

It's not a school choice. It is what is set by the govt, if you don't like it take it up with them don't bother school staff about it. It'll be in their attendance policy which you agreed to when your DD joined the school.

That's standard. No point getting annoyed about it - if you turn up late in a morning it's counted that you were absent for the morning session. Your DC is simply marked as 'absent' at registration time - which she was.

Can you imagine the nightmare for schools if they had to constantly note down EXACTLY when each child came in, how many minutes they were late, how much absense (in minutes) everyone had?

I also agree that if you pick her up at, say, 1.40 for a dentist's appointment then she's counted as having been at school for the whole afternoon, so 'swings and roundabouts'.

That's just how it's done. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

We had a nonsense situation once where in a week my DD was given unauthorised absence every morning because her school transport was late and they arrived 20 minutes after school start. In the same week my nephew was involved in something that meant SIL took him into school for the register and he left right after. Morning and afternoon. So he had 100% attendance

They've told you it's not an issue so don't think anymore about it

The guidelines were tightened up for this school year- you have to be present for the start of the session https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/66bf300da44f1c4c23e5bd1b/Workingtogetherrtoimproveeschoolattendancee-Augustt2024.pdf

Don't worry about it though - the percentage drops are quite big if they miss anything at this stage of the year because there haven't been many possible sessions. It will even out over the year.

But if Unauthorised absence is inconsequential then why does it exist to begin with?!?
I mean, I don’t think DD is likely to be headed to Oxbridge or Harvard in 8 years time but what if she was, say this was secondary school and on one occasion in year 11, there’d been an accident preventing access to school = 1 x Late and then later in the year, the school bus broke down = 1 x Late. I doubt such prestigious universities would look kindly on any student having 2 Unauthorised Absences on their attendance record in year 11.
Obviously I know this doesn’t apply to DD as she’s still in primary but if this is how it works, it must be the same in secondary, no? Just seems wrong to me 🤷🏼‍♀️ But obviously I’m BU

But it worked like that last year too

Yes, that's fair

I’m fairly sure Universities aren’t looking at an applicant’s primary school attendance. Correct me if I’m wrong.

The record is surely more to help flag any kids at risk of various issues in their home life. Eg if you can’t get your kid to school on time habitually, there’s probably some element of chaos in their home life. And obviously if they’re missing loads of school then their education will suffer.

I wouldn't waste any morel of your time stressing about this tbh, it won't make any difference to your DD.
Have you ever been asked about your primary school attendance record when applying for universities or jobs?!

@purpleme12 you're right, I it's always been the case that you had to be there for the start but schools have less leeway about when they close the register and mark lateness.I didn't word it very well!

Kids at our secondary school get a late mark if their school bus is late, which given the amount of roadworks round here happens often.
That's REALLY not fair!

I'm from Scotland so forgive my ignorance, but do you get fined if it goes too low?

Universities don't look at school attendance records.

They are used to monitor the children's attendance by the school - that's how they spot if Peter is often off on a Monday, or sally misses lots of Fridays or (as was the case when I was a kid) Richt misses the few days after payday because her dad gets drunk and violent.

Ofsted also use them to push schools into encouraging attendance. Less said about some of those schemes the better though

My main concern would be; if she's marked as absent for a half day and there's a fire ala at 10:00 and she's in the toilet what happens?

I think it's OK, it's just what they have to do, it won't make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. I'm surprised though as DS's primary was 8.30 am drop off and then the register taken at 9 so you'd have more than 11 mins leeway.

I was chatting to a friend who spoke to the head of year in DS's secondary (Y8) about her DC's absences and the HOY said make sure they're in for 9am and 1pm eg if he's not feeling 100%, try and get him in first thing and even if you collect him just after that at least he has been registered for 1/2 day.